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**klesh** · April 7, 2001, 21:16

Ahhh, so glad to see such intrest!

Just a progress report. I have been able to find a few more things online that will be helpful. There are just so many things going through my head with this...

Where do you guys start off when it comes to scenario? I have all kinds of ideas about terrain, graphics, and gameplay, but I don'tknow which to concentrate on first. I could draw a map, but unless I know what I am going to have as the graphic for the particular terrain, I can't really start. Well, I suppose I could draw coastline and just have all the land as grassland to startI am also stuck on the map scale. I can't decide if it should just cover the city itself, or encompass Operation Uranus which would make the map alot bigger.

A scenario is so much work, I am pulling my hair out trying to just organize it all! It is getting there ....very very very slowly.
[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 07, 2001).]

**Marko** · April 7, 2001, 22:01

I have some more detailed maps about Stalingrad battle. I scan them in just now.

**Marko** · April 7, 2001, 22:34

I sent it to you by e-mail.

The best maps about German-Soviet war are in 6-volume book "History of The Great Fatherland War" (in Russian) but I don't have it at home.

**Captain Nemo** · April 8, 2001, 00:52

Forget about the graphics at first, even the map... Put the terrain names and unit names and stats you want to use in the rules file and build a mini map to test if the "special" features you want to use work.
Does the AI use the units like he should, does he pillage/build improve as he should? Do the correct units appear on the "build" map, does the tech tree work etc...

Too often I have spent so much time on an idea I was sure would work only to find out there are problems in areas I should have tested before getting all the detail "fill in" work.

Second Front I did the right way...tested AI's use of coastal batteries, gliders, engineers vs bunkers, mines, transports, fuel caravan, hedgerow terrain etc. on a very small scale, then built the scenario.

The Blitz I did the wrong way and it is still giving me fits. A real nightmare because the AI won't do what he is supposed to. And I didn't pretest AI's use of aircraft in enough detail. Turns out the AI is stupid (Known fact) and has even more trouble using planes than other units (Let's stack up 45 bombers outside this RAF fighter base full of veteran units and see what happens...duhhh)

Basis advice: Spend a lot of time testing every idea first until you have a good frame and solid proof that it will work. Don't build a beautiful scenario on a bad foundation, that's too sad.

**klesh** · April 8, 2001, 16:25

Ok fellas, I've got a little update.

I worked all yesterday untill 'bout 4 in the morning on this thing...I think I managed to confuse myself even more!

I'll try to fill you guys in, and maybe sneak in a few questions that y'all might answer. Keep in mind, that I AM COMPLETELY IGNORANT TO THIS STUFF. My questions may seem like spam, but I just have to ask them.

Okay, so without having read this last night, I went ahead to make the map. First I had to choose the proper scope of the scenario. Would it be city only, or big enough to include Operation Uranus? I decided on a comprimise. There will be Uranus, but not on the Geographic scale that I would like. But the majority of the terrain will be buildings/factories/suburbs etc.

Let me start with a few basic questions first:

Question 1
What is the best way to chage the terrain squares? It looks to me like you can either use the 'terrain editor' or just cut and paste with a bitmap?
The latter I have found to be easier, but then the graphics never show up where I think they would. Basically I'm not too familliar with the position of the pictures in the 'terrain1, 2.gif' I started by taking a terrain.gif from another scenario and manually changing the graphics. Then a little testing, and found errors. So I've been fixing those with the unit editor in game. I have no idea if that is the way to di it or not.

Question 2
How do I make a .gif image? I can only save things as jpeg, bitmap, .art and maybe another....but no .gif. Keep in mind, all I have for a tool here is the free MSPaint that came with my pc

Question 3
Where is the fortress picture located? When I put one down using the terrain editor, the original fortress shows up, but it isn't on either terrain1,2.gif? I have one that I would like to replace it with.

Question 4
Should I use the notepad techniqe or the 'unit editor' in the game for changing up the units? Again, this call for a knowledge of the units.gif layout, which I don't have. So it may be better for me to us the in-game one? I have done nothing except conceptualize about the units. If I start tochange them in the units editor, will it make up a units.gif for me automatically? (I seem to have noticed that it made a rules.txt after I changed some of the terrain values in the editor). What is the best way to start making your units? I already have graphics for them, just need to organize roles and stats and I'm ready to make 'em.

Any help would be appriciated. I'l be having a ton more question soon i bet.

Okay, here is my thoerhetical idea for the meat of the scenario:

Basically a brawl. No time to really 'develop' as in a classic Civ game.

Player would be the Germans.

Techs would given via event. This is because I haven't even memorized the tech tree for regular civ, let alone devise a new one.

Units would be available via the event-given new tech.

Numerous, historically accurate, event-given units to push the battle.
(I am thinking of the Germans only having 2-3 'HQ' type cities, so they wouldn't be able to produce #'s of units.)

No techs to the (AI) Soviets, to thwart attempts at unit disbanding. Heavily supporting them with event-given units.

Sort of a race against time to push toward the city, then into it itself. Unless objectives are met (capturing 'cities' with 1 Wonder each), then the Soviets get some kind of reward, probably units. Then at at given time, Soviets execute Uranus and will certainly wipe you out. This would be inevitable, unless you capture a particular 'key' area of the city beforehand, or the whole city or some such thing.

Because building units, happiness, development etc aren't really needed, I don't see a need to make all kinds of new city improvements. Perhaps the 'city walls' will be needed to ensure that parts of the city aren't destroyed after capture. But like aquaducts, libraries, manufacturing plants....? Don't see then need for 'em. This would be simmilar in theory to Poalris' 'Gettysburg' I guess. Only I would try to have more hitorically leading events.
Do you think 30-50 turns of just fighting would be fun? I am thinking that it may not if the majority of the units are given; part of the fun is customizing your assault force. But then again, if there are enough units, with different roles there may be enough to keep one's intrest.

I guess that is about it. It is starting to take shape in my head. I am very much enjoying this entire process. I even made my first 3 successes ever drawing units last night! That is a really hard thing to do, I consistantly fail miserably at it!

Thanks for your help guys!

[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited April 08, 2001).]

**klesh** · April 8, 2001, 18:59

More Questions

6) When making units without prerequisites and osolescence, do I have to worry about knights and musteteer slots? I think I've read that they have special effects? I know that Musketeers will make your barracks obsolete right? But if the units are generated as vet or nonvet and the German's HQ cities are not directlyin the city, then it won't matter right? Any thoughts?

7) How many units are available to use? I counted 51 regular units, but in the Rules.txt there are things like 'extra test unit'. Can I make those into regular infantry units etc?(I know how to change the roles etc. with the 0's and 1's).

Also I was alble to draw one more unit. Though it isn't really a unit...

**techumseh** · April 9, 2001, 00:44

A few suggestions for CN, re: Blitz. (with appologies to FMK) 1. Do as John Ellis did in his 100 Years War - an invisible fortress on every square. 2. Two player.

FMK, what is the scope of your project - the fighting inside the city itself, or the broader Soviet double pincer that surrounded the entire 6th Army and almost cut off all the German forces in the Caucasus?

**klesh** · April 9, 2001, 01:59

Add 2 more units to the newly-drawn pile. 2 very Stalingrad specific units indeed.

**Marko** · April 9, 2001, 05:10

Question 1

- People use different methods. I tell how I like to do:

1.Change graphics in Terrain1.gif and Terrain2.gif (start with Civ2 original files so you know what icon is what).
2. Copy Terrain1. and 2 to Civ2 main folder (make backup copies of original ones).
3. Make map with Mapeditor.

Also I convert all graphic files to .bmp format (I use MS Paint)

**Marko** · April 9, 2001, 05:12

Question 2

Civ understand also .bmp files.

**Marko** · April 9, 2001, 05:14

Question 3

It is in Cities.gif file.

**Marko** · April 9, 2001, 05:31

Question 4

I like to use Notepad. It seems more powerful... Actually I have never used Scenario Editor so I can't discuss it much. But I suppose that for beginners it is the best way to start. You can change most of things and Units.gif and Rules.txt are combined there.

For making new graphics Scenario Editor is not good because it can work only with existing civ graphic files. Using it you can copy unit drawings from one units.gif to another but can't add your own graphic. Better to do it with Paint program.

You can do this way:

1. Take existing units.gif (convert to bmp)
2. Replace unit pictures with Paint
3. Change unit attributes in Unit Editor (You see there unit picture and recognize your units) - it makes changes to Rules.txt

There are some very good Scenario making guides around. Check them out.

**Marko** · April 9, 2001, 06:09

Question 6

Better if units which are in musketeers and kinght slots are unbuildable (prerequisities no,no). They make certain other units obsolete (regardless of techs) - read more detailed description from Advanced Scenario Making Guide (was it the right name?). I think that you can get it from Apolyton downloads.

**Marko** · April 9, 2001, 06:15

Question 7

You can use all these Extra units. Maximum number of units is 62 in MGE (and FW).

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