For whom the Bells Toll...

[Captain Nemo]

Prometeus:
The P 40 tank? Are you thinking of the M13/40 successor to the M11/39? or the L40 Semovente 47/32? More probably the P40 Carro Armato "Heavy tank" prototype based on the Fiat M15/42 medium tank. None ever reached service with the Italian Army but possibly some were taken over by the Germans and used in late 1944? The "heavy tank" designation is a little deceptive as this was a 26-ton tank with a 75mm gun similar in performance to a late model PzKw III. I've never seen a picture of it.

I'm always interested in tank information, not much available on the Italian Armor of WWII in most books.
[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 29, 2000).]

[Prometeus]

The P40 was produced in 100-140 units, but only ten were used by RSI Army... the others were captured by Allies or destroyed by partisans still in the factory.
I have a lot of photos about it - there was an article on a military magazine about a Panther licensed production's project in RSI, and a useful comparison between the latest italian tanks and allieed ones, a couple of years ago, so i buyed it...

[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited October 29, 2000).]

[Stefan Härtel]

quote: The P 40 tank? Are you thinking of the M13/40 successor to the M11/39? or the L40 Semovente 47/32?

LOL, Nemo, I always though I understand English!

[Captain Nemo]

My information about the P40 doesn't identify it as an actual production tank, just a prototype. The info about the Germans using them after they took over the Fiat factory in 1944 was only indicated as "potentially" and nothing in the range of 100+ units maybe my book on WW2 armor is outdated.

Stefan what do you mean by: "LOL, Nemo, I always though I understand English!"?

[klesh]

I think he was refering to the tank jargon.

[Stefan Härtel]

Please don't take it personally, Nemo. I know I have no right to intervene, but this is the first time I simply did not understand what you were talking about. But please, continue.
P130, L40, M67
(just my two cents)

[Captain Nemo]

Prometeus:
Could you E-Mail me a good picture of it?

My best source on the subject the "Encyclopedia of Weapons of WWII" states:

"The Carro Armato P40 prototype was tested in 1942. It had improved armor protection over the M15/42 but had the same suspension/track system. Power was provided by a V-12 petrol engine w/420HP and armament comprised a 75mm main gun and a 8mm machine gun. The weight was 26 tonnes. The P40 was produced by Fiat in Northern Italy, but none of these entered service with the Italian Army. Most of them were taken over by the German Army, which ensured continued production for itself, some reports stating that as many as 50 could have been built-No Pictures available"

[Prometeus]

I'll send it ASAP.

[Stefan Härtel]

Nemo:
OK, it just could have been that I went too far and insulted you...

quote: You learn things every day... even when you are like me and think you know everything

I agree. Just like king Peroz I. being defeated by the Hephtalites twice while trying to surpress the Nestorians.

[Captain Nemo]

I take nothing personally Stefan, I truly didn't understand what you meant

I saw the "P40" question and looked through all my books and couldn't find it so I listed a few other tanks with "40" in the name... Turns out there really was a "P40" prototype heavy tank made by Fiat late in the War. You learn things every day... even when you are like me and think you know everything

I am about as lost when it comes to Ancient Persian history with all those tribe names, dynasties and kings with "poly-syllabic" names.
You may not get this joke but some Americans that follow the upcoming elections may

[Prometeus]

Pics on the run, Nemo.

PS The one you were talking about the German army was th M41 75/18 model. If you need more help with italian WW2 tanks, just ask.

[Captain Nemo]

Thanks for the pictures.
Looks exactly like an M15/42 with a bigger gun. Exact same hull, wheels, tracks etc...
BTW the data above was quite specifically about the P40. The M15/42 and M14/41 are also listed as late WWII Italian tanks.
The M15/42 was built in 1943 (Total 82 built) and most were issued to the Ariete Division that fought the Germans when the Fascist government collapsed in September 1943. The tank was described as "already obsolete when it entered service", because it had light armor and a 47mm gun. (Weight 15.5 tons)
The M41 75/18 is not listed... Is it an M14/41 retrofitted with a 75mm gun?

[Jim Winchell]

Did the Germans have a heavy seige gun mounted on a tank chassis? Perhaps the "Karl" unit should be on a railway carriage?

[Prometeus]

Jim, i think you are talking about the Brumbar-Brunbar-whateveritsnamed

[Captain Nemo]

The "Karl" was truly a 60cm mortar mounted on a HUGE tank chassis (275,000 Lbs!) that allowed it to crawl along towards the fortifications it was designed to destroy.

The Germans had a number of railroad mounted heavy artillery pieces, including "Anzio Annie" and "Dora" (At 80cm Dora was the largest artillery piece ever built, used to shell Sevastopol in 1942)

In the towed artillery category the Germans had all kinds of different guns up to the massive 24cm Kanone 3 and the 35.5cm Haubitze M1, both were so big they were transported in several loads and field assembled.

In the self-propelled category (Excluding the Karl) the Germans used the StuG III and StuG IV extensively, but these are more in the "assault artillery" rather than Self-Propelled artillery category. In this category you also have the Brummbar and Sturmtiger both carrying heavy mortars for demolishing fortications at close range, but designed to get "close to the action".

The pure SP artillery category only has the Wespe 105mm and the Hummel 150mm, the first built on the PzKw II chassis and the second on the PzKw IV platform.

A few other oddballs:
The sIG33 and the Waffentrager, both designed to carry a field gun loosely installed in a craddle on a tank chassis. Both were produced in very small numbers.