looking forward to play an email game?

[Jay Bee]

RobRoy and I posted at the same time.

My list
1. 30 years war
2. Viks
3. Thunder

Don't care about civ selection.

[Allard HS]

1. Vikings
2. 30 yrs
3. Thunder (as indeed JB would be advantaged).

But I don't really care, to be honest. Neither about civ selection.

[RobRoy]

J.B. - Good question. I suspect it has something to do with an unwillingness to keep "demoting" me. The better question, of course, is why would I ever want another title when I could be known as the most powerful and fundamental civ unit?

Thinking about next question - civ assignments - it occurs to me that people may not know what I mean by the three selection methods I've mentioned. It also occurs to me that we probably won't have the luxury of having an uninterested party available to help sort out civ assignment in a timely fashion. So the "randomness" might be difficult to verify or accept. So here is a brief explanation and some procedures we could use that might enhance the credibility of a "random" process, and reduce the possibilities or appearances of conflicts of interest:

RANDOM ASSIGNMENT:

- "Assigner" randomly assigns a numeric rank to each player besides himself (will only matter for lucky player #1);

- "Assigner" randomly assigns a civ to each player;

- Player #1 (only) now has the option of forcing a trade with the "Assigner" (only).

= Slight advantage to Player #1, slight disadvantage to the Assigner. Neutral for everyone else.


RANDOM SELECTION:

- "Assigner" randomly assigns a numeric rank to each player;

- Starting with Player #1, players sequentially pick civs, making public announcements regarding selections;

- "Assigner" gets the leftover civ.

= Significant disadvantage to the Assigner. Neutral for everyone else. Increases the likelihood that more players will be happy with their civ.


PREFERENCE LIST:

- "Assigner" ranks and publicly posts his preference for civs;

- Other players then rank their preferences and privately submit them to "Assigner";

- "Assigner" collects and publicly posts preference lists, which will be resolved per next three steps:

- If any civ is uniquely identified as a the topmost choice of just one player, that civ is assigned to that player;

- For civs that are the topmost choices of more than one player, the "Assigner" randomly resolves the conflict, unless the "Assigner" is involved in the conflict AND another player has already been assigned a civ (in which case that player resolves the conflict);

- For the losers in conflict resolution, another round is conducted examining their topmost civ still unassigned...repeat above.

= More cumbersome. Slight disadvantage to "Assigner". Highest likelihood of greatest overall satisfaction with civ assignments, but also a high probability that one player will get his last choice.

Let me know if anyone sees any problems with these procedures or has a more elegent solution. Or if anyone who isn't interested in playing wants to assume that "Assigner" role for us...

I'm willing to be "Assigner", if no one else is eager (or if no one else really cares), regardless of which civ selection method people prefer. I don't really mind who I play, but I do care that we have a process that is as fair as possible.

In the likely event that this post is greeted with a resounding...YAWN..., I'll assume I'm the only one who cares about the process even a little and may just start randomly assigning civs.

So far, we have a slight lead for Vikings, with no new submissions, but almost equal support for 30 Years War. We do need confirmation from several players regarding their interest level, though. We might actually be able to start tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by RobRoy (edited January 11, 2001).]

[Shaka Naldur]

Robroy
I took a look to the vikings scenario and I agree with you
I think that any of the 30 wars period,(hagsburg bid for mastery, time of thunder, 30 year wars by Jesus Munoz and The Capo)
are really balanced

I think that Tecumseh mention once that he has a multiplayer modified version

I´ll write him an email

so Allard, Marko, and Robroy want to play an email game


anybody else????

[Allard HS]

I'd prefer to play as Byzantines than as Vikings.
I think that all three; Byz. Vikings and Abbasids are equally fun. Hungarians are also pretty ok, and Franks may be fun for a good player. Only Indep. and HRE are not playable. So that makes 5 players to play.

About everyone wanting the Vikings to play, I don't think that's true as it's the easiest. For better players, weaker civs are more challenging.

End of Bronze Age is also fun but turns are very short and especially in the beginning you spend the whole turn on only one unit. A bit waste of time, I believe.

30 years' war seems nice too. Peloponesian War (not called Sparta) might be a nice candidate, but a lot of things are not correct in the scenario and there are too many events.

[Marko]

I can play every scenario, still The Thirty Years War seems the most interesting.
At moment I'm away from home until Monday and can start then.

To Shaka Naldur: The Struggle for Europe scenario is almost finished. I polish now easy version of it and release will be soon.

[This message has been edited by Marko (edited January 12, 2001).]

[Stefan Härtel]

Well, I'd be happy to play any of those. WW2 scens would be nothing for me, especially because the plot is alwaysthe same, here's the good guys there's the bad guys, and bad guys have atvantage but etc.

I can unfortunately not play Mondays, because school goes to 6:30 PM, and any weekday would be bad
As I said, Saturdays would be the best, but I will see if I can comfort with your decisions.

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.
-George W. Bush

Shahan Shah Eran ud Aneran

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[RobRoy]

The votes are in! With Stefan abstaining, and the Florida recount completed, the consensus choice appears to be:

30 Years War! by Jesus Munoz

The latest version I have is 2.3, per the README.TXT, with the scenario file having a date of 11/27/95 (which is impossible and must be an error). Does anyone have a later version than this? If this is the latest version, we'll have to fix the "starving barbarians" problem. Does anyone know of any other problems that we should fix before we start?

The second question is whether we want to use "double movement", as someone suggested? Personally, I'm a purist and would prefer to play the scenario as is. But if there is strong support for double movement, I'd propose changing the rules.txt file to double sea movement as well - just seems right.

The default difficulty is Emperor level. Is this okay, or is there a groundswell of support for Deity or something else?

The only other issue is civ selection and no one seems to care how we do it, except me. So I'll assume it's okay to just randomly assign the starting country (Spain in this case), and then have the subsequent civs assigned sequentially to the remaining players in geographical/time zone order (I'm thinking that may also help minimize game delays). I believe that order would be:

Marko
Stefan
Allard
Shaka
RobRoy
JayBee

unless someone's changed locations. For example, if Allard is assigned Spain, Shaka would be assigned Sweden, I would be the Protestants, JayBee would be the Imperials, Marko would be the Danes, and Stefan would be the French. I'm arbitrarily leaving Poland to the AI, since it was historically less dynamic during this period than the others, unless anyone objects strenuously, or unless we get another player.

At the risk of being accused of steam-rollering the process, I'll assume the version I have is the latest and go ahead and make the "starving barb" mods to it. I'll then send it to whoever gets Spain, unless someone wants to double check it.

Unless there is a lot of discussion about scenario errors, double movement, or difficulty levels, we should be able to start as soon as the Spanish player is identified and is ready. In Marko's case that might not be till Monday, but anyone else should be able to start the MGE Hotseat game as soon as we're sure we're working with a good .SCN file.

[Jay Bee]

No double movement please. Other than that, ready and willing...

[Stefan Härtel]

30 Years War seems OK, it is an awesome scenario. It'd be allright for me to play the French Although my religio-political feelings tell me "play the protestants" they were too hard for me to manage in a single-player game.
Emperor level is alright to me, I'm not such a good player. Prince is too easy however, and I think there's no such big difference between king and emperor.

Now, I am still lacking knowledge: I have never played such a game before, and if someone could explain to me like to a five-year old how this works that would be good.

One more thing: I remember there was a mulitplayer tournament with this scenario, and I think I remember that techumseh had made an MP update of it. Could someone send that to me, so I can train a little (not to make it too embarassing to me )

And then there is the time factor ... ?

------------------
Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong!

The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country.
-George W. Bush

Shahan Shah Eran ud Aneran

Visit my Homepage at: http://members.xoom.com/SHaertel/Index.html

[Shaka Naldur]

okay, so let´s play
my heart tells me to play Spain but I agree with the random country asign.
I rather play single move, like in classican civ.

I never played an email game before so I´ll need a little explanation first, I think I´ll ask in the multiplayer forum.

Tecumseh has a multiplayer version of the game so I think we´ll have to ask him, but we have to change the fortress unit, some cities are unconquerable, I don´t like that aspect

other point that I don´t like of the scenario is that turks neither english are represented in the scenario, neither an italian association

I still don´t think that Jesus has and advantage in his Time of Thunder but....

[Stefan Härtel]

Of course we could ban him into the lowlands but...
(j/k)

[RobRoy]

Okay, I've modified the .SCN file to illuminate the barbie cities and prevent famine. I also made some tiny adjustments to terrain improvements around the unconquerable Barbie cities of Cardiff, London and Genuva, similarly to prevent famine. I have made no other changes (though I notice the Spanish player will have a slight problem with Cordoba on the first turn). But if anyone wants to review the work, just ask.

Shaka - At this point, I think any other mods to the scenario should be avoided, unless they correct obvious errors. We'll never finish, once we open that can of worms. Nor do I think we should wait any longer to examine, discuss, approve Techumseh's version. For better or for worse, this is the scenario that we've chosen - we haven't selected some alternative version that allows...whatever...weaker Fortresses, forays into or by Britain, Turkey or Italy, etc. Since yours was the deciding vote, I suppose you could change it and we could do Vikings, instead, or even open up the selection discussion once again. But otherwise, I think we should move ahead with what we've got (else we may never move ahead). Basically, that means this scenario with default settings.

Stefan - Since silence is consent, and I've heard no objections or alternatives, We're going to randomly assign the Spanish player. I'll set something up after this post, then post again. Everyone else will be assigned to the subsequent civs in the arbitrary order I outlined above. The Spanish player will start an MGE Hotseat scenario game, with 6 players, none of the options should be selected. Each player will password protect his civ, conduct his turn, end the turn via CTRL N, save the .HOT game, then e:mail the .HOT game file to the subsequent player, who'll load his civ and repeat the process. I'm probably forgetting several steps, but Xin Yu posted some useful cautions in the 2194 scenario thread.

[RobRoy]

I've just randomly given each of us a "Spanish control number". I've e:mailed Allard the results, to keep me honest.

Would the next poster to this thread (aside from Allard), kindly roll a 6-sided die and post the results.

We'll then be able to determine who the Spanish player is, and the rest of us will be assigned the succeeding civs in the geographical order outlined above.

[Jay Bee]

Stefan:

quote: I'm not such a good player

do not worry about that. I always play all scenarios as if they were Spanish Pride. Nothing to fear from me in the battlefield (but in the econmical side....)


Shaka,

quote: I still don´t think that Jesus has and advantage in his Time of Thunder but....

he, he... maybe we could set up a Spanish-only game among you, me, Juan Fiera, Jesús M, and Manuel P. And Allard of course as a guest star and former Spanish citizen . No joke, I mean it!


Rob

quote: Would the next poster to this thread (aside from Allard), kindly roll a 6-sided die and post the results

Not quite sure of what you mean here (dice?) but my little princess is now playing with the marble dice I won at Las Vegas' Mirage and the first one she dropped on the floor marked 5. (For those interested, it miraculously survived).