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**Prometeus** · December 16, 2000, 17:07

I included ancient Vietnamese-Yueh tribes in my Warring States scenario... but I think you were referring to Vietnam war, so i will shut up.

**VietMinh** · December 17, 2000, 12:29

The one at the SL's "For review section" the one that has been reviewed were B.Steinn's. The one for review is the best of them all.

**techumseh** · December 18, 2000, 02:13

I did one a couple of years ago, called Vietcong. It ran from the start of the Tet offensive until the liberation of Saigon. It had a variety of Migs, Phantoms, B-52's, Hueys, etc., as well as SAM's, riverine units, Khymer Rouge and so on.

I never distributed it widely because I was never satisfied with it. It worked great until the US pulled out. The problem was that there was never any satisfactory way to simulate the American withdrawal after the Paris Peace Accords. I used St. Leo's Workshop to make American units turn into refugees and evacuation helicopters, but there was no way to turn off the events, so the American airforce kept coming. There were also piles of refugees stuck in the middle of the south China Sea. It was very messy.

Since then the technology has improved. Test of Time has flag controlled events which can be turned off, there are bat. files to change units and rules texts, and hex editing to add more civilizations, edit barbarians etc. I've been thinking about remaking Vietcong in ToT and fixing the problems, plus upgrading it to todays' standards. Would there be any interest in such a project?

**Cam** · December 18, 2000, 10:19

techumseh,

I'd be very interested to see what's created.

I had always intended to do a web guide for scenario authoring for Test of Time, and was all set to use 'The Vietnam War' as the example. I'd dabbled with a few ideas with multiple maps, flags, and shifting negotiations, but the whole thing never came to fruition - I seemed to spend heinous amount of effort explaining the most straightfoward concepts, the whole thing got very wearing and ultimately abandoned. With that said, I thought it could work well with the 'Test of Time' mechanism.

I'd be curious to see what you come up with! I found this PBS site to be tremendously helpful.

**PolarisGL** · December 18, 2000, 11:51

techumseh,

I'd actually help you with such a project in MGE or ToT if you need it. I have some modern conversions from various sites I found that you could use if you would like. I've also been drawing some 19th century European soldiers, and I could always draw some 20th century units if you wanted me to.

Suggestion: make rivers ocean. Then make patrol boats and what not that act as transports for a unit.

OR make a river on grassland and surround the grassland with ocean, and have a patrol boat actually be a ground unit. Not sure if that would work or not.

Anyway, good luck.

**techumseh** · December 19, 2000, 12:40

Well, that's two! Cam, I'd love to read what you came up with; can you send it to me? Thanks for the link, it looks valuable, especially the timeline.

PolarisGL, thank you for the offer. Please send what you have. I'm actually pretty well set for units, having made this scenario once before. BTW, the Mekong is navigable well into Cambodia.

Let me pull together what I have and send it to you both, hopefully before Christmas. Thanks for your help.

**PolarisGL** · December 19, 2000, 15:23

techumseh, I'm putting together the naval conversions as we speak, and could probably get them to you before or after Christmas, depending on time.

I have tanks and airforce put together.

**techumseh** · December 27, 2000, 23:45

I would appreciate any suggestions anyone might have about the scope of the scenario.

1)Should it be playable by both the North Vietnamese and the Americans, or just by the North Vietnamese? If the Americans can be played, what strategic options should be available? Full scale invasion of North Vietnam? Nukes? Soviet and Chinese intervention? How about South Vietnamese playability?

2)Is there any interest in a two-player version?

3)When should it start and end? The original scenario started with the Tet offensive (Jan 1968) and ended with the fall of Saigon (May 1975). It could start when the first US ground troops landed in March 1965. It could also end with the signing of the Paris Peace Accords in January 1973. Preferences?

4)Here's what I'm thinking for civs: North Vietnam (and Viet Cong), South Vietnam, United States (and Australians and ROK), China, Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand. Use barbarians for the Khmer Rouge and the Pathet Lao. Comments?

Thanks for any suggestions anybody might have.
[This message has been edited by techumseh (edited December 27, 2000).]

**techumseh** · December 31, 2000, 16:03

Hello? .......Hello? .......Anybody in here?

**VietMinh** · December 31, 2000, 17:38

1) Only the North, the Americans can't be done right

2)I don't think so

3)Start when the americans come in, end mabye 2000? make it a war and developpement scn?

4)good thinking.

suggestions; make the north's untis weak at first then stronger as the war elvols, also lots of viet cong should appear randomly in south viet nam

**Case** · December 31, 2000, 23:45

In my view making the scenario cover only the period of US involvement would be a mistake. The Vietnam war was primarily a civil war between North and South Vietnam. Whilst America and her allies forces were significant, the majority of soldiers involved in the war fought for the North/Viet-Cong or South. As such the scenario should continue after the Americans pulled out. Because of this, the scenario would probably work best if it was made to be played from North Vietnam's perspective.

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith

**Kull** · January 1, 2001, 00:52

If it's to be a single-player, North Vietnamese scenario why not include the French and start it back in the early fities? Be careful though. I suspect you may lose much of your audience if there isn't a human-playable American civ. Lots of people will want to see if THEY can win the war. After all the North won anyway, so where's the challenge in repeating history?

The real challenge will be creating a scenario in which the side with better weapons and technology doesn't automatically win.