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**Mao** · May 28, 2000, 00:46

Before I download: What version is this for? MPG or ToT?

**St Leo** · May 28, 2000, 09:34

FW - will work on MGE, won't work on ToT.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

**St Leo** · May 28, 2000, 11:50

I have just adjusted the attack values and no,noed three techs - if you have already downloaded, please download again.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

**blackclove** · May 29, 2000, 14:49

First-pass comments:

I played as the Chinese and had a lot of fun! I like the city styles (from ToT) but I hate the mining graphic. Can you find a better one that still lets me see the roads?

Please rehearse the following rule: ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. (Repeat as often as necessary.)

You should rename Railroads to Great Roads so that it makes sense. I think the road picture could be better/more visible as well.

I like the units a lot. I like how you need to combine feudal lords with peasant levies to make progress.

Maintenance is zero for all improvements, which leads to LOTS of gold being thrown around. This may not be a problem as I quickly subdued the natives and use their gold to build structures in one turn each.

The cost of slaves is too high; if you rush buy them, they cost negative gold. I would eliminate the ability to build slaves entirely as you can always capture natives and put them to work.

You can research Native Cities as China. Bug.

The tech tree is too short. You should extend it and let us get some new, nifty units. Otherwise all those learning improvements are useless. Please? Please?

There's something wrong with wonders. Either you can build all of them at the start or you can build none of them. I think you should go ahead and include some wonders... they're cool. Maybe make the natives have some.

I think you should take out the elephants. Where are the Phoenicians going to get them in America? Maybe you should give them Llama troops instead or simply have them get only a limited number of them, shipped in from Europe from time to time.

One way to make things a bit harder would be to give all your opponents free slaves from time to time. I think that would really help them to grow their empires faster. They seemed to be slow starters.

The Irish got wiped out almost immediately. They might need some help of some kind.

So far, my Chinese Empire has settled the coast of California, built a Great Road through the Rockies and has subdued (and created a thriving state) in the plains area. We have also moved hordes of Feudal Lords into Mexico and have conquered all the way to Panama, subduing the Aztec Empire. Our new alliance with Rome has provided a lot of trade arrows and a war with the potent Vikings. Those damn longships are ruling the Great Lakes area.

Overall, it seems like a great scenario! I really hope you add the wonders in and extend the tech tree... I am almost to future tech and it's still the 1200's I think.

Cool idea: if you get too successful, you could research "Independence!" which would let you declare your own Empire, free of Chinese domination . The result? An event that creates a bunch of Chinese troops under the command of the Mesoamericans just outside of your capital. When they sack the capital your empire should split in two, leaving you with the loyal and the disloyal Now tell me that wouldn't be a nifty twist!

In general I really think you need to work on (A) the wonders, and (B) the tech tree. Adding some more cool events would be nice, too. Maybe even some events describing what happens when we conquer certain cities?

**St Leo** · May 29, 2000, 15:50

I played as the Chinese and had a lot of fun! I like the city styles (from ToT) but I hate the mining graphic. Can you find a better one that still lets me see the roads?

ToT?
Vikings - Captain Nemo
Irish - Markus Eklund
Romans/Phoenicians - Erwan
Chinese - AoE, St. Leo
Mesoes - BeBro
Natives - Crappy graphic from FW

Please rehearse the following rule: ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. ALWAYS INCLUDE PEDIA.TXT. (Repeat as often as necessary.)

It is 0.9... Wait, does the game automatically use getinfo.exe without a pedia.txt? I deleted mine so I always have the dialog-based help.

You should rename Railroads to Great Roads so that it makes sense. I think the road picture could be better/more visible as well.

Is MGE compatible with FW's labels.txt?

I like the units a lot. I like how you need to combine feudal lords with peasant levies to make progress.

Great, considering I have never played as the Chinese myself.

Maintenance is zero for all improvements, which leads to LOTS of gold being thrown around. This may not be a problem as I quickly subdued the natives and use their gold to build structures in one turn each.

I thought setting all maintainances to zero would be an interesting experiment.

The cost of slaves is too high; if you rush buy them, they cost negative gold. I would eliminate the ability to build slaves entirely as you can always capture natives and put them to work.

Sure, no prob. Vikings and Irish can't build them anyways, so I will simply use the same tech.

You can research Native Cities as China. Bug.

Whoops.

The tech tree is too short. You should extend it and let us get some new, nifty units. Otherwise all those learning improvements are useless. Please? Please?

I have always sucked at tech trees, but I will give it a try.

There's something wrong with wonders. Either you can build all of them at the start or you can build none of them. I think you should go ahead and include some wonders... they're cool. Maybe make the natives have some.

'Kay.

I think you should take out the elephants. Where are the Phoenicians going to get them in America? Maybe you should give them Llama troops instead or simply have them get only a limited number of them, shipped in from Europe from time to time.

Hmm, I guess the reasoning is the same as with the horses.

One way to make things a bit harder would be to give all your opponents free slaves from time to time. I think that would really help them to grow their empires faster. They seemed to be slow starters.

Which turn events work again?

The Irish got wiped out almost immediately. They might need some help of some kind.

I will see what I can do.

Overall, it seems like a great scenario! I really hope you add the wonders in and extend the tech tree... I am almost to future tech and it's still the 1200's I think.

Thanks.

Cool idea: if you get too successful, you could research "Independence!" which would let you declare your own Empire, free of Chinese domination . The result? An event that creates a bunch of Chinese troops under the command of the Mesoamericans just outside of your capital. When they sack the capital your empire should split in two, leaving you with the loyal and the disloyal Now tell me that wouldn't be a nifty twist!

Who exactly researches this?

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/
[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited May 30, 2000).]

**PolarisGL** · May 29, 2000, 16:53

Not really to playtest it, but more of a look for myself. I played as the Romans, with about 10 minutes until I had to go get some groceries. I ended up playing for an hour, so my grocery run will have to be tomorrow.

I love your scenarios, Leo. Each one gives some sort of unique aspect to Civ2. I loved the Roman scenario with the city, merchants, graphics from Caesar III, etc.

Outstanding!

**blackclove** · May 30, 2000, 00:53

Game #2 I played as the Phoenicians. We conquered everyone way too fast. I wasn't even trying, really. I was wasting my time building useless junk like city improvements instead of building the way-mondo war elephants. They are way, way too rude Best defense and best offense is just a little too unfair.

Personally, I think the Romans should get the best defensive units. They seem to be expanding slowly in general. Part of that is just that they start with their big cities on an island. Part of it is just that they are wimpy.

Is MGE compatible with FW's labels.txt?

I don't think so; you'll probably have to make one separately for each.

You can research Native Cities as China. Bug.

Actually, I think you can research Native Cities as any of the civs.

Re: Elephants... Hmm, I guess the reasoning is the same as with the horses.

Well... OK, I guess. I just don't think they would make it in America. Then again, the Phoenecians wouldn't have made it to America in the first place...
Which turn events work again?

I think the turninterval ones work, but the randomturn ones don't.

(I wrote: ) The Irish got wiped out almost immediately. They might need some help of some kind.

In the second game, the Irish mopped the floor with the Vikings. I guess their first lack of success was random bad luck.

Re: Independence Movement. Who exactly researches this?

Hmmm... well, if you make it a prereq for really nifty stuff maybe someone might... or maybe not Well, it sounded good at the time.

I liked Rome and the New World, and this is a much cooler version of the same silly theme. Keep it up, I like it!

**Mao** · May 30, 2000, 15:02

WTF!!! I download the scenario, unzip it, and run the setup program, then I can't find the friggin scenario! It's no in my unzip folder! ARGH!!!

...just venting...

**St Leo** · May 30, 2000, 18:00

Game #2 I played as the Phoenicians. We conquered everyone way too fast. I wasn't even trying, really. I was wasting my time building useless junk like city improvements instead of building the way-mondo war elephants. They are way, way too rude Best defense and best offense is just a little too unfair.

I'll fix it.

Personally, I think the Romans should get the best defensive units. They seem to be expanding slowly in general. Part of that is just that they start with their big cities on an island. Part of it is just that they are wimpy.

Okay.

I liked Rome and the New World, and this is a much cooler version of the same silly theme. Keep it up, I like it!

Where can I download it?

WTF!!! I download the scenario, unzip it, and run the setup program, then I can't find the friggin scenario! It's no in my unzip folder! ARGH!!!

I apologize for setup.exe being a misnomer - it should be run after the files are unzipped into an appropriate folder, not before. Please view it as a variant on seasonal batch files from Red Front.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

**Mao** · May 30, 2000, 20:40

OK, unzipped it again, didn't run the program, and can't find the damn thing! Where is it!? It's no in my unzipped folder! What should I search for? What's the name of the folder for the scenario?

**blackclove** · May 31, 2000, 10:52

Rome and the New World is at:
http://members.xoom.com/platehead/Files/ranw.zip

...I warn you, it's REALLY old.

**St Leo** · June 3, 2000, 10:55

BTW, I am still alive but don't expect any work on this scenario until after the weekend. On the plus side, you'll get the random slaves, wonders, and other stuff.

OK, unzipped it again, didn't run the program, and can't find the damn thing! Where is it!? It's no in my unzipped folder! What should I search for? What's the name of the folder for the scenario?

I have no idea what of what the problem is, Mao. Point your unzipper to a subdirectory of scenarios and let 'er rip.

Rome and the New World is at:
http://members.xoom.com/platehead/Files/ranw.zip
...I warn you, it's REALLY old.

I agree.

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

**Allard HS** · June 4, 2000, 08:35

I also spent a little while playing it. Very nice scenario, and outstanding graphics..!

Unfortunately, Blackclove already mentioned most of my points. Here's a little more what he didn't see yet:

- To prevent too early elimination of the natives, give them more cities (like twice as many) or slightly stronger units (make it a little more of a challenge) or both. This will make the game more enjoyable.

- You have a lot of space free for more units. Allow more units to be used through research. It doesn't necessarily cost a lot of trouble to do, but adds a lot to the ambiance.

- Give special leader units to all civs.

- Add more events pop-ups to key happenings (like major cities' captures or at leader's killings).

- Some players are clearly superior to others (such as Vikings over Irish). Balance this a bit more to get more of an equilibrium and make the game more enjoyable.

- Devide all player's units more into specific "attack" and "defense" units. As it is now, there's usually one unit you build continuously that is strong on both. This is the sign of a bad scenario. In a good one not all the cities are building the same.
Also, new technologies could allow for units that replace older units or add something new.

- The readme states that some civs have just arrived at the new world, others have been there a longer time. Perhaps give the older civs more cities, deeper into the land, and slightly weaker units than the newer civs, so that the impression is given that this is indeed so as described in the readme. As it is now, all civs are more or less as powerful at the start.

**St Leo** · June 6, 2000, 19:08

I have just uploaded the full release version.

New features include but are not limited to:
-leaders
-wonders

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

Announcement

Fictional Americas Released for Playtesting

Fictional Americas Released for Playtesting

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