RED FRONT ROCKS

[techumseh]

Here are my suggestions for version two:

-partisan activity is insufficient, and should not be limited to the Pripyat marshes. I don't know if you have any more events space available, but if you do, this would be a good use for it.

-Yugoslav partisans don't work at all. They are far too few and start next to major cities where they are destroyed before they can even move. Tito's partisans tied down more German divisions than the British and American armies in Italy.

-I suggest a separate rules file for the '41 winter only. The Germans were very vulnerable in the first winter only, they didn't make the same mistake again. Their units should be even weaker in the first winter, allowing the Soviet player to counter attack more effectively.

-A dialogue box about the Finnish peace offer should be included at the end of the winter '43 events instead of at the beginning of the summer '44 events. The Finns ask for peace immediately after the reload, before the message is displayed.

-Historicaly, the Soviets had naval units in the Baltic sea, based at Kronstad. They included a couple of old battleships, cruisers, destroyers and subs. The Soviets made a large scale naval evacuation of Tallin. The Germans eventualy used mines to restrict the Soviet Baltic Fleet so that they could use their own fleet against the British. I suggest renaming Narva and put one of those fixed bunkers in it. Make it produce naval infantry instead of Leningrad. If there's enought events space, create German mines in the Gulf of Finland in August.

-In the Black sea, the Germans had some naval units: a couple of old Romanian destroyers, some merchant shipping and a few small U-boats brought in via the Danube canal system.

-Cheaper Red Airforce units. There was a big draw off of Luftwaffe forces to defend the Reich from '44 on. Soviet aircraft production was high, and they achieved air superiority during the Kusk battles of '43.

-I also had repeated problems when capturing German cities with my finances being screwed up. At the end of the game I looked at the German map and almost all cities were on capitalization. Something radical has to be done to reduce German money, especially in '44 and '45. Maybe an event based on the D-day invasion.

That's it!
[This message has been edited by techumseh (edited November 25, 1999).]

[Overdrive]

Sept 41 (deity)
------------------
The Rodina is in great danger!
German Panzer Armies have reached most of our important industrial centers in Western USSR.
Although two small counter-offensives, executed by hastily brought up tank corps, stopped the ennemy momentarily between Khar'kov and Voroshilovgrad, STAVKA expects further territorial losses.
So to say no troops are left for defense. Vellikyie Luki and Kholm are under constant attacks from the Luftwaffe,Vitebsk encircled without hope for relief or outbreak. At least 10 mechanized divisions stand waiting to crush Smolensk.
In the South, Odessa surrendered, Nikolaev is under siege, Kherson changed hands twice already and Zaporozhie is destroying its installations.
Let's hope for an early Rasputsitsa!

[Captain Nemo]

Techumseh:
Very good feedback... Many of your complaints are answered in version II here are some of them:

Partisan activity increased dramatically in the winter of 1943-44. Also the re-capture of Kiev causes the partisan units to be "integrated" into the Red army as free veteran Guard units.

The Yugoslav partisans seemed to work in my game at least I saw them harassing the Germans for about a Year. I will add more, however, since they are "Barbarians" I don't really want them to be around when the Red Army gets into Yugoslavia because they will attack the Soviet player too, of course.
The re-capture of Minsk now causes a large uprising of Soviet controlled partisans around Warsaw, even gave them some Machine guns and light artillery to simulate the major fight the Polish underground army put up in Warsaw when the Soviets were approaching.

The winter of 41 idea is good, I am even considering leaving in the regular Wehrmacht soldiers in summer uniform to show that the Germans were without proper gear that first winter... The revised aviation rules (See above) also changes the picture a lot, the Germans no longer protect their ground units with Me-109 so they are easy bait for the T-34s.

I will move the Finnish dialogue box... I also got a stupid "peacenik" message about getting rid of my nuclear weapons (They are the forts) I changed that message to something different.

If I add Kronstadt it will be an island off the coast because Narva is too important a stepping stone to Leningrad. I could give the Soviets battleships too. It would require removing the Nazi navy flag from the icon. Events for summer 1941 through summer 42 are completely full...after that there is plenty of space. The mining of the Baltic would have to be delayed until the winter of 1942-43... The easiest I can do is throw in a couple of Soviet cruisers in Leningrad. If they venture out into the Baltic they won't last long, anyway.

I will add a few German destroyers and U-boat in the Black Sea (I have at least a couple of destroyers in 1941 but usually the Soviet cruisers take them out in the first turn when they come over to "look at" Sevastopol).

The Soviet airforce will be cheaper. Right now it's not worth building planes. Only the IL-2 can survive the onslaught of Me-109s because it doesn't have to stay airborne.

The Capitalization problem is very tricky... The rules do prevent the Germans from building capitalization but the AI does it anyway... I did create the new "Concentration Camp" improvement (SDI) really expensive to maintain (75 gold) and the Germans are convinced the Soviets have nukes (Fortifications) so they build them in every city! That eats up all their cash. Only trick is to remember to sell them when you capture a German city otherwise their drain the Soviet pocketbook too.

BTW regarding your strategy for the next game:

-airlift units from UK to Soviet airports
That's cheating IMHO and also according to the readme file

-use the British freight units earlier to build various wonders.
Build suitable wonders in the UK using the freight units.
That's a good idea, the wonders make all the difference especially

Convoy system, gets your convoys through

Labor front, gets the Soviet economy into the "black"

Tankograd, puts the research into overdrive (Though it requires sacrificing direct weapons research for 3 consecutive techs)

Electrification, explodes shield production
(Worth researching early)

Also the trick of using the 4-5 first Iran convoys to make trade routes to Baku, Grosnyy and Maikop is INVALUABLE! By 1944 those 3 cities alone produced 750 gold and over 1000 research!

On the other hand wonders (except convoy system) should not be built in the UK for historical accuracy (See readme file).

I am currently playing August 1944 Deity without cheating and using the convoys as intended, building wonders etc... I have massive research and shield production and produce about 20-25 high cost units per turn. I am about to complete the military research and Tankograd, but still have
only T34-85s and IL-2 planes, Katyusha's were my first research objective (As you noted they are deadly!) I stopped the Germans at Leningrad-Demyansk-Kalinin-Moscow-Kursk-Voronezh-Stalingrad-Maikop all cities to the West of that line fell. Luga to the East also fell. I lost Tikhvin to the Finns for a short time completely isolating Leningrad but it held. Now I have devised a reconquest strategy which involves building up large forces of T-34s, KV-1s and Katyushas protected by Lend-lease Halftracks
and then hopping from city to city hitting so hard that there are no Germans left to counterattack and allowing me not to loose many units. So far the Northern attack has taken Kholm, Velukiye Luki, Daugapils, Narva, Tallinn and Riga. Germans are completely trapped in Norgorod and Luga. In the South I hit Kharkov and Gomel.
My conclusion is that I can win the game as currently designed but I will let you know. The momentum has definitely shifted.

I did spend a lot of time building up the Ural production. Several small cities have productions over 50 shields and some at 70 or more. For example Vorkuta, size 5 produces 92 and spews out Katyushas at one per turn...logistical nightmare to get them back West but that's a lot of firepower.
Kirov, size 8, has 6 "industry" squares and produces 134 shields! That's any unit at a rate of 1 per turn!

[techumseh]

Some final comments:

-Make the Yugoslav partisans Soviet rather than barbarian units. There could be a fun little "mini-game" in the Balkans. By the time the Red Army arrived, Tito had created a large regular army which linked up with the Soviets. They received British and Soviet aid and liberated most of Yugoslav territory themselves.

-Why not just delete the UK airport?

-Perhaps the machinegun unit should be a defensive unit.

[Captain Nemo]

I thought about making the Yugoslav Partisans Soviet, but I think it would require a specific "Yugoslav Partisan" unit to avoid looking like a bunch of Soviet Partisans in the Balkans... Maybe I could obsolete the Laborer unit by the winter of 1942-43 and use the slot for the Yugoslav Partisan?

The UK airport was designed to make veteran planes capable of shooting down the Ju-88s and He-111 and killing the German subs... But I think it's a good idea to remove it lest ye be tempted to airlift units to the Soviet Union.

The Machine Gun is designer as a "counter-strike" unit. Not a mobile attack unit (Move=1), nor a defensive unit but one designed to wait in a city protected by AA batteries and defensive units like the NKVD trooper and waits for enemies to stall outside the city. I used them very effectively in forts along the Don river opposite a row of minefields where they mowed down dozens of hapless German infantry units. Besides only in an attack mode does it get to use the nice soundtrack!

[mrtemba]

CAPTAIN NEMO! YOU HAVE DONE THE IMPOSSIBLE! I LOVE THIS SCENARIO!

Currently its August 1941 (I don't have a lot of time at my computer, but I will be playing more). The Nazis have captured Brest and next turn they will almost definitely capture Oddessa and Minsk. I am putting a major defense behind Kiev. Hopefully I can kill a whole bunch of them there.

Casualty Report --

Soviets
104 Red Army
22 T-26 Light Tanks
13 I-16 Polikarpov
12 Partisans
12 Red Guards
10 57 mm Anti-Tank Guns
10 Motorized Infantry
7 Naval Infantries
7 Heavy Artilleries
6 AA Batteries
6 Machine Guns
5 Cossack Cavalries
3 NKVD Troopers
3 Refugees
2 Destroyers
2 Freighters
1 General

Finns
8 150mm Artilleries
3 PzKw III Panzers
5 Infantries
1 Ju-87 Stuka
1 StuG III

Nazis

74 Wehrmacht
42 PzKw IV Panzers
30 Wehrmacht SG
19 Ju-87 Stukas
11 Romanian Infantry
11 He-111 Bombers
4 PzKw III Panzers
4 StuG IIIs
3 150mm Artillery
2 Waffen SS Regiments
1 Me-109 Fighter
1 Destroyer
1 U-Boat

I like the idea about red guards being promoted, although it will make the scenario much toughter. Increased Partisan Activity, NKVD presensce and suburubs to move troops through should make up for it. I would also love to see the Zaitsev unit! Although I realize that unit slots are scarce.

One Question -- What does the Concentration Camp replace?

[Captain Nemo]

MrTemba:
This is a great honor, you actually LOVE this scenario... Wow!

I do not think I could get any greater endorsement than MRTemba liking a WW2 scenario.

It appears from your report that you are a tougher opponent than most actually taking out 40 of those Pzkw IV in June-July is very impressive...but watch out the Germans have many nasty tricks in that first summer. Also still holding Minsk and Odessa in August is not easy. What other cities have fallen? Tallinn? Nikolayev? Riga? Lvov? Byalostok?

You love the Zaitsev unit? Did you read "War of the Rats"? (I guess that was the title of the book about his cat and mouse game with the German sniper ace in Stalingrad?) I didn't read it but I have quite a historical account about him and as far as I understand the book (though a novel) is very accurate too.

The new "Concentration Camp" is the SDI improvement, useless in a game without nukes but the only "useless" improvement the German AI will build (Probably because the Nuke unit slot is in use). I tried the recycling center and mass transportation but the AI just didn't build them in a game without pollution. I am testplaying the game with the changes and can gradually increase it's maintenance cost in the later rules files if the Germans still make too much money.

[Michael Daumen]

Nemo, perhaps a popup text should appear when the Soviets capture a German city with a concentration camp saying that it should be disbanded.

Of course, with all of tech's suggestions you will need another events file alone.

It really is a great scenario. I imagine you could write five SLeague tips with the things you discovered.

------------------
Michael Daumen

"the future is not yet"

[mrtemba]

Nikolayev, I think was destroyed. Between them taking it and me hitting it back it soon was depopulated. (Or maybe I'm thinking of somewhere else). Riga was captured in the first move, nothing I could do about it. All the others have been taken, except Talinin which is surrounded and undefended

Yes, I read war of the rats. I loved it! If the Ai didn't **** it up so bad I would reccomend sniper units.

I looked at the events file and I think its pretty cheap that whenver I kill one of them they get two more elite units, and so on. Isn't there are better way to do it?

[mrtemba]

oh and thanks for explaining about the concentration camps!

[Captain Nemo]

MrTemba:

Regarding the events that give the Germans new units when you kill some, there was no way for the AI to achieve historical "High-water marks" in 1941 without some incredible help. I could of course give them tanks with 18a,12d right from the start and make the Wehrmacht infantry 10a,8d but that would make any counter-attacks futile and make the Human player feel totally helpless.

Here you can make a difference, most units are not regenerated when killed, only some, and then moved forward to reinforced the front lines or regenerated in another area (I think of it as a way to more frequently trigger a needed "createunit" command, not as a "revive dead unit" command).

This heavy "AI cheating" ends in December 1941 with the Germans either around their actual historical positions in Dec 1941 or not quite there if you've done well or past them if you've done poorly. There is still some help later on because the AI refuses to build units, can't figure out how to fortify captured cities etc... but no more "auto-regenerating units".

I could have made more turn triggered createunit commands progressively advancing into Soviet territory as cities are taken, but there is just not enough event space in the summer of 1941 to make up for the AIs moronic behavior!

I feel the best approach is just not to look at the event files so you don't really know how much the AI cheats and you don't feel fooled...

By 1944 with more limited event help I am kicking the AI's behind, with a simple superior strategy that the AI can't figure out. My only challenge will be to see if I can get back to a marginal or decisive victory in the time allotted because I'm still facing 100s of extra units generated in 1941... I believe the AI will realize that he is losing the military edge at some point and start building units again but it's not happened yet. I have wiped out the entire Luftwaffe except for a few Me-262s and FW-190s which are generated by events (Because the AI won't build them) I hold a serious armor edge now with about 100 T-34s, 75 Katyushas, 25 KV-1s and my first dozen Su-152s against only 80 German armor units left (I am playtesting so I run in cheatmode and check up on the AI regularly) But the Germans still have over 400 Wehrmacht/SG units and also many SS-regiments. The first Tiger IIs are rolling up from Western Germany but haven't seen action yet.

One nasty "Karl" siege mortar got into the Caucasus mountains and caused havoc bombarding Maikop repeatedly (systematically cost me the city's 2 best defending units each turn) and almost indestructible on a mountain square. I got it into the "red" three times before I finally killed it but it cost 8 "good units" (T-34s/Katyusha's) to do the job, just the last time.

I was surprised to hear a city was wiped out. I have systematically given all cities anti-tank defenses to avoid that, but I guess on conquest sometimes that improvement is lost and with an immediate counter-attack the city could be wiped out. I haven't seen it happen since I gave all cities in the warzone the anti-tank defenses.

It also sounds that you are putting up much more of a fight than I have been able to. When Nikolayev falls I am usually worried about fortifying Rostov and Kharkov not trying to retake anything, but that's why I need many people testing the game, each has his own strategy and all have different outcomes. Some feedback is "It's too hard, can't even hold Moscow and Leningrad", others "it's too easy to hold the Germans from their actual 1941 achievements..."

Thanks a lot for giving me all that good feedback. Version 2 will be all the better for it.

[Captain Nemo]

Michael:

Is there a way to trigger something when a certain improvement exists in a city? I don't think so...
They are truly hassle. But I have just sold all powerplants and hydroplants (Electrification) so the Soviet economy is booming. I am even speed buying units from scratch! Those 3 Caucasus "oil-cities" are truly the key to the economic game! Tech advances now take 2 turns!

[Michael Daumen]

_War of the Rats_ was a great book about the battle of Stalingrad for you readers of English out there. One of those books that amazes you when you find out what is truthful and what is fiction (like Card's _Red Prophet_.

[Captain Nemo]

April 1945...
The Soviet offensive is awaiting the summer weather for it's final push. There are pockets of Germans encircled in Novgorod-Luga, Luga-Kaluga, Sevastopol-Kerch, Minsk-Smolensk... But generally German organized resistance has ceased to exist. Town defenders engage in token fights before surrendering... Except for the SS, who still put up stiff resistance. Their new Tiger II Panzers are really nasty but fortunately there are very few of them facing my 300 motorized units and 100 aircraft! The Northern pincer is in Eastern Germany after taking Konigsberg and Dantzig, the Southern pincer is at the Romanian border reaching for the oilfields at Ploesti. Each group is spearheaded by a motorized army group with 15 + Katyushas launchers and 30 or more tanks of various types. Behind follows a caravan of Red Guards, AA guns, motorized infantry and halftracks to hold the captured cities. IL-2s are used to clear the path between cities of any wandering German units so the motorized units can concentrate on moving in and killing the city defenders... It is not clear whether I can get a victory because there is little time left and the Germans still score a "marginal victory" currently.

The new version of Red Front will be out within the next week. Many playability improvements are nearly complted.

[techumseh]

How about a two-player version?