Got an idea for a byzantine scenario :)

[Varwnos]

But if i decide to make it it will be a fantasy scenario, i am too bored to venture on trying to make a scenario about the epirotan greeks in 1024 (some old plan). I think that i will try to make an rpg like scenario, explaining life in the byzantine empire in the best of times, ie during the reign of Basileios. Altrnatively it could be the final years before Matzikert. Feel free to comment, you have (?) probably seen my scenario GWOI so have an idea on what i can (and what i can't) do civ2wise

[Varwnos]

Well i made the first unit for the scenario (my first byzantine unit anyway, not sure if i will go on with the scenario) and i shall not hessitate to call it Byzantine Archer!!!

[curtsibling]

Looks cool!
I know of at least one historical Byzantine scenario under construction.
But if this is an RPG type-affair it will no doubt be different.

Damn good idea, actually!

If you need some help just ask us, we are here to assist!

[Arthedain]

Have you come up with any task for this "role" we are gonna play? Nice unit btw, you draw better and better

[Varwnos]

Well, it will be about some young person trying to live in the times of the byzantine-bulgarian war. I think that it will be pretty much about the cosmopolitan aspect of the empire as well, and also the spirit of the times. The byzantine empire was a place of vast contradictions. It only became a religious zealot state after it started collapsing, post 4rth crusade that is. Probably you will have to earn a small fortune in the byzantine-bulgarian war, and then "buy-produce" some units in some "inn" town. Then seek to conquer a city and create your own kingdom, in the still vast empire. How do you like that plot line?

[Varwnos]

My byz soldiers look a bit like ninjas, but i am just following the costumes of the period, which is why they are so close to the ones from daroe, obviously the creator of daroe worked with the same 3d models

[Palaiologos]

May we assume that it will be based on the book "ston Kairo tou Boulgaroktonou" (at the time of the Bulgar slayer-Basil II for the unelightened)?

Cool idea!

[Varwnos]

Well, it will be very loosely based on history, infact i think that i will probably start it off in the time of basil the bulgar-slayer (who didnt do anything enlightened anyway, but those were dark times) and then kick it off in the time of Matzikert and the plotting of Psellos and the rest of the political party against emperor Romanos Diogenes (who ended up blind in some prison cell, and there goes the entire eastern part of the empire with him). I am not yet sure that i will go on with the idea though, it is a bit too much. perhaps if i could get some help with the ideas and character graphics (apart from the byzantine army which is easy to do) i am not into byzantine history, since i dont really like the byzantine empire or any empire or nation particularly. i am trying to live as a human being without the need to hold on to any such glorified notion of the past.

As for the book "in the time of the bulgar-slayer" i havent read it, but read other stuff by Penelope Delta. She was a great writer in some of her work, but i think that she had serius psychological problems. Check her story "the broken violin" which is about the suicide of a young boy. Certainly she wasnt a happy person. And in my book that means that her life wasnt good.

I am thinking of having a rather small map of northern Greece and parts of the south, and also part of the asia minor coast (not the map of my GWOI scenario) and have 3 "kingdoms" the Byzantine empire (almost everything) the duchy-principality of Morea (pelloponese) and the despotate of Epiros. This is anachronistic ofcourse, but this is a fantasy scenario. Then there will be the player, with his units. My model scenario of the kind os Spartacus, but it will be very hard to reach that civ2 heights New ideas are welcome, nothing is set yet. Herreson's city graphics will be probably used (or were they made by Heraclius?) Some good "inn" graphics are needed as well, so dont be shy!

[Varwnos]

ok, two more units i made, the amazing unit for the evil noble Psellos (i think it was Ioannis Psellos, not sure though, historical figure, in all probability didnt look like that at all though heh) and his fat-boy swordsman. Alternative title: "you just HAD to go against Psellos in the first 5 turns while playing on Deity level, didnt you?" LOL

curtsibling, how about that help you talked about? i wont try to make everything by myself that is for sure, it is too much work. i will need terrains looking like inns and walls, and also catapult and balista units, and also a lot of babes (wait, that isnt your job, but the rest are!!!)

[Arthedain]

Unist from: Bitterfrost, Imperium Roamum and Harlan Thompson's collection:

[curtsibling]

Groovy!

[Valuk]

I don't like the idea of the two fantasy states much, but it would be interesting to make a scenario where you would have to create an indepednet district in pre- and post-Manzikert Asia Minor or Bulgaria.
What good would Morea and Epiros do, anyway?

P.S.: Byzantium became a "zealot-state" in the time of Justinian, its' cultural life bloomed more than ever in the Paleologian period, with thinkers like Plotin, who was a semi-secret neo-pagan but was tolerated.

[Varwnos]

hm, well the Palaiologian period was indeed a period of a final flourishing of the arts, but that just means that the people of the time had no way of leading a humane life. When the possibility of leading a narmal life perishes the person of abilities just pushes himself over in the fantasy world of art, that is all. Think of Kafka, Meyrink, Baudelaire, Pessoa, and in some degree even Dostoevsky. Also you can think of Nietsche's argument against artists etc. But ok, i am not really into that kind of debate here, this is a civ2 forum

as for morea and epiros, well all i can say is that i find them more interesting as fantasy states, than bulgaria or asia minor. Besides Morea had princes in the final years, and Epiros almost succeded in becoming an empire, after 1024. But the final argument (not that one is needed anyway) is that they are in Greece, so it is more fun for me

The catapults + balistas look cool, ty

I think that a fun idea would be that the player isnt exactly the protagonist, but some other minor "kingdom" rebels under the influence of Venice (or rather supposedly under the influence of Venice, but in reality due to opposition to the nobles in the case of the demise of Romanos) and the Empire is trying to kill the rebels. Then the player takes advantage of the situation and chooses to either become the king of Epiros (in war with both the Empire & Epiros) or to attack the minor Pelloponesian or Athenian kingdom so as to profit in the war. Well at the moment it is a very vague affair what the plot will be like, and certainly it is still very early days

[Varwnos]

hm, well i started working on the map a bit, but it looks like it is a very tall order. francly what i am really good at civ2wise is making units (i think that the byz units i made look very cool) but scenario making isnt just about that. anyway i will finish the units and then we will see. new unit "epirotan spearman" i think that i have managed to make better byz units than the classic ones in Daroe, or is this just my view?

[Varwnos]

Ok, some new units made, including the first entirely fantasy unit (the horse-archer one) which will be one of the possible members of the team. It is a prince, or a plebe, or even a plebe prince! I havent named him yet, probably it will have some greek name that sounds funny to foreigners, like Christos Emmanuelides or Athanasios Strategopoulos heh (or it could just be named Igor i guess)

ps probably i will have to make a new unit for Psellos, since the unit already made looks horribly more like a merchant, so it will be just that. ps2: i need rpg style terrain graphics + church terrain! + comment on the units!!!