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  • Originally posted by academia
    but curt... if you are going to release a multiplayer version i strongly suggest you to delete those events.
    Thats not hard to do. I agree though that a pbem version of this scenario would need some rebalancing for the sake of gameplay.
    Sea Kings TOT

    Sors salutis/ et virtutis/ michi nunc contraria,/ est affectus/ et defectus/ semper in angaria./
    Hac in hora/ sine mora/ corde pulsem tangite;/ quod per sortem/ sternit fortem,/ mecum omnes plangite!

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    • What do you mean with: "I hate this characteristic"???
      That i don´t like the "have to research techs in order to wage war on someone" option

      Thats not hard to do. I agree though that a pbem version of this scenario would need some rebalancing for the sake of gameplay.
      Yep. My point is that I love playing PBEM games!! and believe me, i think this one could become one of the best scenarios for PBEM games ever
      South Atlantic Conflict v1.2 - Civ II Scenario
      Iron Curtain v1.1 - Civ II Scenario

      Comment


      • Ok, here is a first suggestion. I just worked on it on my own (Jim didnt see it yet).
        I will post the sav.

        Following things have to be explained:
        Curt, you did one logical fault. You imported citys which were strategically important in WW2 to the 1980, where they are nothing more than little villages whitout natural enemy. For Example:
        -Brest
        -Tobruk
        Also:
        -Bergen and the other little citys in Norway.

        I also deleted Stettin and Leipzig (as they are not the biggest citys and the German Superior Production with little landmass problem from normal ww2 scenarios does not exist in this case).

        Founded some new colonies... Hope you like the names.


        PS: I will continue working on infrastructure and stuff...
        Attached Files
        Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

        Comment


        • Originally posted by academia

          My point is that I love playing PBEM games!! and believe me, i think this one could become one of the best scenarios for PBEM games ever
          Just a general question:
          Would you guys be interested in a global WW2 Demogame half German half English languaged?
          My folks from the Civ2 Webringforum and I often play Demogames but we are not that much people as here. So it would be interesting to have a mixed Demogame.
          Beeing more than 2 members per nation would be nice...
          Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

          Comment


          • what scenario?
            "Peace cannot be kept by force.
            It can only be achieved by understanding"

            Comment


            • Hmmm... Thats the question. I would really like to take the scenario Curt, Jim and me are working on - but I fear this will take its time. So this was just a general question to get some feedback for the idea.

              The Demogame itself could perhaps start in the winter.
              Deutscher Meister 2004: WERDER BREMEN

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              • Cifer Almasy, you do know that Stockholm is to be south of Oslo right?
                "You should count all humans as your kinfolk and the whole world as your foster country."
                - Queen Kristina

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                • Originally posted by Cifer Almasy
                  What do you think of the Reich´s changes we proposed?

                  I am all for removing those Reich cities in the urals and creating other cities elsewhere.

                  This will give more of a battle ground for the Red Empire to cross.

                  About these glorious saxon city styles, I am only for making the biggest city icon the grand one.
                  A continent of massive marble cites is not fitting in a grim post-war German hegemony.
                  When the nukes are raining out of the sky, it won't matter anyway!

                  http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                  http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

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                  • @Cifer:

                    Hey, any chance of you making those same changes again to this here save file?

                    Just delete any units that block your path!

                    The save file...
                    http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                    http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

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                    • Originally posted by academia
                      Mmm... i´m going to make two comments...

                      1) Do you really like the gigamap you are using curt? You know, there are better and bigger gigamaps around. like the one used in imp1870 or in 2194 days gigamap version
                      Young jedi, know this, you must...

                      Giant ambitions lead to Giga maps,
                      Giga maps lead to Mass AI unit building,
                      Mass AI unit building leads to 'too many units'
                      'too many units' leads to Curt crying.

                      Giga maps, lead you to the dark side, they will.

                      Originally posted by academia 2) Mmm... this is extremely personal, but i really hate to follow plots-guidelines in a "what if" scenario like the one we are playing here. I don´t like those events that allow me / don´t allow me to negotiate, sign peace, form alliances with whoever i want and whenever i want. I can´t do it
                      I strongly believe that these "what if" scenarios should give us more freedom to choose our own path.

                      Again, it´s just my point of view
                      Funny, the system I picked was designed to give a lot of choices...

                      The trouble is this:
                      If I allow full diplo options, the AI will all begin swapping techs and you will see the Reich fly Red Empire planes, etc....Not good!

                      I think it would be nice to allow full communication between all civs, etc.
                      But you know that they always demand techs and silly things,
                      and to make the civ fully unflagged would lead to crazed civ suprise attacks, etc.

                      Also to avoid tech swapping/demands I would have to kill most of the civ Unique Units and identity...

                      That I cannot do at this stage.
                      http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                      http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • Young jedi, know this, you must...
                        Giga maps, lead you to the dark side, they will.
                        Well, for your info i´m not a newbie in the scenario creation world...
                        I made two scenarios in a gigamap (iron curtain and latinamerican crisis) and believe me, I never received the "too many units" window.
                        Anyway, i know that you may come across this problem in singleplayer, but in all my pbem tests (seven!!!) I´VE NEVER SEEN THE TOO MANY UNITS PROBLEM!!!!!

                        So, if that´s the only reason for not using bigger gigamaps, i suggest you to make up your mind.
                        Really, i made tests... and it works fine in multiplayer games

                        If I allow full diplo options, the AI will all begin swapping techs and you will see the Reich fly Red Empire planes, etc....Not good!
                        That´s not true.
                        It depends on the way you design the tech tree
                        I´ve never seen the soviets building phantoms in my iron curtain games, or the non-alligned nations (controlled by the AI) with mig-21s
                        There are two "methods" to design tech trees
                        If I correctly recall, Andrew Livings Crisis scenario is a good example of the method i´m using. Bah... you can even look my iron curtain scenario.

                        But you know that they always demand techs and silly things,
                        I know. it´s a question of singleplayer vs. multiplayer mode
                        South Atlantic Conflict v1.2 - Civ II Scenario
                        Iron Curtain v1.1 - Civ II Scenario

                        Comment


                        • Let me give you an example.

                          VENDETTA SCENARIO

                          Alliance Infantry
                          Pre: Pacific Alliance
                          Obsolence: Nil

                          Sturmwehr
                          Pre: Nazi Military
                          Obsolence: Nil

                          Federal Infantry
                          Pre: United Federation
                          Obsolence: Nil


                          Result: 3 different techs required for 3 different units
                          Well, if you take a look at each civ in the game (bah, the main three: eternal reich-UFA-Red Empire) you´ll notice that they have different and unique tech trees for each one.
                          So, in the case of tanks, you´ll have to use 3 tech slots. the same happens with fighters, bombers, etc.
                          And all these techs share the same characteristic:

                          Prerequisite: "some tech"

                          In other words, in case of diplomatic talks ANYONE CAN ASK FOR / OBTAIN THOSE TECHS.
                          So, as you said before: "the AI will all begin swapping techs and you will see the Reich fly Red Empire planes, etc...."
                          South Atlantic Conflict v1.2 - Civ II Scenario
                          Iron Curtain v1.1 - Civ II Scenario

                          Comment


                          • And now, the other method:

                            IRON CURTAIN SCENARIO

                            US Army
                            Pre: Conscription
                            Obsolence: Not USA

                            Red Army
                            Pre: Conscription
                            Obsolence: Not Russian

                            NATO Army
                            Pre: Conscription
                            Obsolence: Not NATO

                            Result: 1 single tech (conscription) for 3 different units.
                            You use one tech tree; the same tech (conscription, mobile warfare I, etc.) may allow different civs to build their unique units and identity. got the idea?

                            Of course, i assume you notice those "obsolence" techs: Not USA, Not Russian, Not NATO.
                            Well, that prevents the undesired effect of soviets with phantoms or europeans with migs.
                            see this example:

                            I´m USA. i have mobile warfare I that lets me build M60 tanks.
                            I gave the tech to the non-alligned nations. will they be able to produce M60 tanks? NO. why not? because they have the "Non USA" tech
                            And what if i give the mob. warfare I tech to the soviets? will they produce M60 tanks? NO. because they have the "Non USA" tech

                            I hope i made myself clear
                            South Atlantic Conflict v1.2 - Civ II Scenario
                            Iron Curtain v1.1 - Civ II Scenario

                            Comment


                            • @Academia:

                              My yoda impersonation was a bit of humour, not an attempt to ridicule you, my good chap!

                              I have utmost respect for my fellow civ players/creators.

                              Anyways:
                              About giga maps, I have made up my mind, about 3 scenarios ago!
                              At this stage, I am not enthusiastic about recreating a whole map from scratch, especially one of those giant, problem-making gigas.

                              I like the map I have for Vendetta, it is big enough for the purpose...

                              About the tech tree issue, you make a good case.
                              I am aware of this method of tech tree design, it is used in 2194 days and various other sceanrios...

                              It has got me thinking as to if I should implement this style of tech tree, although it would mean a major overhaul...

                              and with all the differing civs and factions in the scenario,
                              making sure none of them can build each other's units might actually just involve as much complex tech jiggery as anything else.

                              I'll do a few tests, but I cannot promise anything.

                              Vendetta was made primarily for single player, but multiplay is a case of ditching the war events and putting everyone on peace treaties...

                              Thanks for your suggestions, Acedemia, I will think them over...
                              http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                              http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

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                              • I am going to make up a test thingie for academia's tech tree suggestions, I will be back with the results...

                                http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                                http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

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