WW1 OOB (1914) needed!

[jim panse]

As you´ve read, I would need some OOBs of World War One. Divisional/Corps level would be fine, including "Air Forces" would be fantastic. OOBs of the navies I´ve got. Can anyone help?

[Boco]

Which theaters?

[jim panse]

Europe and the Middle East would be fine .....

[Boco]

I've got a lot offline. Let's see what the Grognards can give you from online sources, then I'll try to fill in some gaps.

Here's a start.

Pocket German Army

Orbat Historical OOB's

[Galvatron]

A big Hello

I've the "World War I Databook" it's 323 pages full with OOB's, manpower, raw material production, ministers, leaders and everything what a WWI buff like me needs.

I can provide you with OOB's for EVERY nation in this conflict even with Portugal, South Africa or Canada if needed.

Ok let's start with our glorious Imperial Army of A-H:

Total Inf. Divisions: 76

16 pre-war formed Div (1 div was a "Schützen-div (belonged to the Austrian Landwehr, and two div belonged to the Honved (Hungarian Landwehr), rest: regular Infantry, were deployed in Serbia. They were reinforced by 4 divisions in 1915 (1 Honved, the rest regular)

40 pre-war Div in Russia (consisting of the two famous Mountaineer div: Gebirgsjägerdiv. Edelweiss and Kaiserjäger, 8 Schützen, 2 Landsturm and 5 Honved, the rest: regular)

The Schützen, Landsturm and Honved were used as Gendarmerie in the occupied provinces to maintain order)

1 div was reserved for Montenegro

The rest was used for interior duties till the Italians entered the war, then 18 Div were send to Italy (1 Schützen, 1 Honved, rest: regular)


Cavalry Div: 12

1 Div in Serbia

10 Div in Russia (two were mounted Honveds, they ride into battle but fought dismounted, they used the horses only for movement, they had no training in fighting on horseback).


And now to our good friend and neighbours the Germans:

Infantry Div Total: 241

35 div along the Belguim-Marne Line: 35 (4 elite Guards, 10 Reserve and 1 Bavarian Div)

35 div in Russian Poland (East-Prussia) (11 Reserve, 7 Landwehr, regular)

1 Marine Div along the Flandern Coast (reinforced 1917 with a second Marine div)

17 div in Lorraine (6 Bavarian, 7 Reserve and 3 Landwehr)

12 div in Alsace (4 Landwehr, 4 Reserve)

10 div in Flanders ( 1 Bavarian, 9 Reserve)

11 div along the Luxembourg-Marne Line: 4 Reserve

4 div in Lithuania (Russia): 2 Landwehr

1 div in Artois (Reserve)

That's it for now, I've to go, wohoo party. Hope this helps, will continue as soon as possible, of course.

[jim panse]

Thank you all. I only need the numbers of the infantry and cavalry divisions for October 1914 if possible.

The countries OOBs I would need are: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia, Italy, United States and last but not least: Great Britain and France.

Only approx. numbers are also enough.

[Boco]

Um...wasn't much of the US army in Mexico in 10/1914?

Ellis' book is an excellent source for this stuff. Galvatron, be my guest.

Btw has anyone compared Ellis' book to Haythornewaite's "WWI Sourcebook"?

Btw2, IIRC those 'elite' Prussian Guard divisions weren't significantly better than standard army divisions.

JP, are you aiming for civ-specific units?

An idea for cavalry. Since in Europe they were useful only for reconnaissance and exploiting breakthroughs, why not give them low af, moderate df, ignore ZOC, and see 2 squares?

[jim panse]

@ Boco: I have some different types of units for each civ; the main infantry unit is the "ordinary" army of each country, in the beginning of the war without steel helmets and - after having researched the sppropriate technology - with steel helmets.

A civ can build these units:
Army (basic infantry unit)
Army w/Steel Helmets (improved infantry unit)
30mm Field Gun (close support gun)
Field Artillery (generic light artillery)
Cavalry Regiment (mounted troops)
MG Position (defense position, ideal for "trench warfare")
Siege Artillery
Armoured Vehicle

There are some "specialised" forces for some civs too:
Strumtruppen (attack infantry unit; only Germany)
A7V PzKpfw (only Germany)
762mm IG L16.5 (light assault gun; only Germany)
Mark V Tank (only Entente cordiale)
Sub Hunter (only Entente cordiale)

The following units come via events:
Kaiserjäger (good alpine troops; only Austria)
Alpini (good Alpine troops; only Italy)
Chasseurs d´Afrique (colonial troops; only Entente)
Schutztruppe Afrika (colonial troops; only Germany)
King´s African Rifles (colonial troops; only Entente)
ANZAC Troops (good infantry unit; only Entente)

I would need some stats about the armies in 1914. I have some OOBs at home too but I need additional information. Could anyone please post/send some OOB to me?! Thanks in advance.

[Boco]

Midwar infantry improvements sound good. Tactics and equipment changed dramatically.

Looks like you're covering Africa as well as Europe. How will you keep regular armies out of Africa?

[Galvatron]

Originally posted by Boco
Ellis' book is an excellent source for this stuff. Galvatron, be my guest.

Btw has anyone compared Ellis' book to Haythornewaite's "WWI Sourcebook"?

Btw2, IIRC those 'elite' Prussian Guard divisions weren't significantly better than standard army divisions.

And here I'm again. Wow a really good party yesterday, I just came out of bed approximately one hour ago: Alc, Girls and Trance, what could a man need more .

Ok back to topic:
Right the databook from Ellis/Cox is really perfect, everything is covered: campaigns, OOB's, weapons, equipment, everything you need. I accidentally stumbled over it at the British Bookshop, well it was a little bit expensive but hey it's worth every Euro.

Regarding the Prussian div:
As Germany unified the Prussians were the leading force behind, they had the best trained army and after the Unification the Regular Prussian Divisions became "Guard"-status.

Oh and Jimmy the stats I posted are these from 1914. These are the starting OOB's.

Now let's continue with the show:

[Galvatron]

Germany

Cavalry Divisions=11

1 div in Russia
10 on the west front (1 against Belgium, the others against France)

France
Inf.Div. = 140 (22 were Colonial Div mobilized in Algier and Marocco)
Cav.Div = 12 (2 were Foot Cavalry=ride into battle but fought dismounted)

Great Britain
Inf.Div = 68

1 in Egypt
3 in India
The rest on the West Front

Cav.Div = 4

Italy
Inf.Div = 36 (2 Bersaglieri Div)
The famous Alpini Div were formed during the war: 1 on January 1917 and the second on September 1918)

Cav.Div = 4

Russia
Inf.Div = 243
Cav.Div = 53 (29 were Cossack Divisions)

Regarding the United States I've the following:
Inf.Div = 43

30 of these Div's were sent to Europe and the first reached the continent on June 1917.

I've no record for an earlier date, as Boco stated earlier I'm sure they were in Mexico following Pancho Villa.

I hope this will help you, just ask if you need something more. Really good WW I scen are rare and I'm always glad when somebody work on this theme. I'm looking forward to the outcome.

[jim panse]

@ Galvatron: 1st of all: Thank you very, very for the stats! Great! 2nd: I hope I can justify your faith in my scenario ....

[jim panse]

@ all: I´ll soon open a preview thread in the Civ2-Creation section.

[jim panse]

uh, can someone get me the Ottoman OOB too?

[Boco]

It's also in Ellis. Do you have all the other OOB's you need?

I think you should depict reserve/territorial/landwehr/honved divs with lower stats than 1st line divs. Also don't forget that colonial garrisons and slow mobilizations tended to keep divs from the main front for months. Had those 68 divs of GB been all 1st line divs and deployed in Flanders, the war would have been over by 1916. The Germans had enough trouble with a handful at Mons.

AFAIK, the delineations between 1st and 2nd line divs tended to blur as the war progressed. In Civ2 terms both could be upgraded to the mid-war improved infantry.