"World War II - Under Construction"

[curtsibling]

I have a new system these days, inspired by Academia!

This is an unfinished version of the tech structure for a future update of Dictator:

Note how the tech areas are stratified into special areas...

Twice Removed, 1, 0, no, no, 1, 1 ; Plu
World War Two, 1, 0, Plu, nil, 1, 1 ; PT

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Third Reich, 1, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Ind

Nazi Research Effort, 1, 0, Ind, nil, 0, 0 ; Phi 60

Secret Weapon I, 1, 0, Cst, nil, 3, 4 ; Roc
Secret Weapon II, 1, 0, Las, nil, 2, 3 ; Met
Secret Weapon III, 1, 0, Met, nil, 2, 3 ; Min

Panzers I, 1, 0, Ind, nil, 2, 3 ; Las
Panzers II, 1, 0, Min, nil, 2, 3 ; MP
Panzers III, 1, 0, Cst, nil, 0, 4 ; Cmb
Panzers IV, 1, 0, Stl, nil, 0, 4 ; Eng 25

-----------------------------------------------------------------

American Army Tactics, 1, 0, PT, nil, 2, 0 ; E2
American War Industry, 1, 0, E2, nil, 2, 0 ; Aut 5

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Militarism, 1, 0, PT, nil, 1, 1 ; Mon

Civilian Products, 1, 0, nil, nil, 2, 1 ; MT 55
Regional Industry, 1, 0, MT, nil, 2, 1 ; Inv
Railroad Network, 1, 0, Inv, nil, 2, 1 ; RR
Industrialisation, 1, 0, RR, nil, 2, 1 ; Bri
Heavy Industry, 1, 0, Bri, nil, 2, 1 ; Too
Munitions Industry, 1, 0, Too, nil, 0, 2 ; FP
Mass Production, 1, 0, Mas, nil, 2, 1 ; Feu
Super Production, 1, 0, Rad, nil, 2, 3 ; Uni 85
Efficient Society, 1, 0, Med, nil, 3, 1 ; Rep

Labour Corps, 1, 0, Too, nil, 2, 1 ; Lab 40
Women Workers, 1, 0, Lab, nil, 2, 1 ; Mas
State Farming, 1, 0, Mas, nil, 2, 1 ; Rfg 70
Civic Improvement, 1, 0, Ban, nil, 3, 1 ; San
Total War, 1, 0, Ldr, nil, 1, 1 ; Cmn 15

Electrification, 1, 0, nil, nil, 2, 3 ; E1
Electrical goods, 1, 0, E1, nil, 2, 3 ; Mat
Transistors, 1, 0, Env, nil, 2, 3 ; Che 10
Radio, 1, 0, nil, nil, 2, 3 ; Rad
Television, 1, 0, Mys, nil, 2, 3 ; Cmp
Cinema, 1, 0, Cmp, nil, 2, 3 ; The
Broadcasting Industry, 1, 0, Mat, nil, 2, 3 ; Env
National Media, 1, 0, Uni, nil, 2, 3 ; Mys
Mass Propoganda, 1, 0, The, nil, 2, 3 ; Sup 80
Controlled Information, 1, 0, Sup, nil, 2, 3 ; Iro
Unquestioning Society, 1, 0, Iro, Min, 2, 3 ; Fun

Banking, 1, 0, nil, nil, 3, 1 ; Ban
War Bonds, 1, 0, San, nil, 3, 1 ; Lit
War Economy, 1, 0, Lit, nil, 3, 1 ; Cur 20
National Loans, 1, 0, Cur, nil, 3, 1 ; Tra
Stock Exchange, 1, 0, Tra, nil, 3, 1 ; Eco
Foreign Interests, 1, 0, Eco, nil, 3, 1 ; Cor
Financial Sectors, 1, 0, Cor, nil, 3, 1 ; Med 50
Corporate Society, 1, 0, Iro, Min, 2, 3 ; Dem

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Nationalism, 1, 0, nil, nil, 1, 1 ; Cst
Patriotism, 1, 0, Ldr, nil, 1, 1 ; Cer
Officer Corps, 1, 0, Cer, nil, 1, 1 ; Ldr

Civilian Draft, 1, 0, Cmn, nil, 1, 1 ; Csc
Infantry Tactics, 1, 0, Amp, nil, 1, 1 ; Tac
Airborne Tactics, 1, 0, Tac, nil, 1, 1 ; CA
Elite Forces, 1, 0, Csc, nil, 1, 1 ; Amp

Japanese Warfare, 1, 0, Mon, nil, 3, 0 ; Gun 35
Partisan Tactics, 1, 0, PT, nil, 1, 1 ; Gue

Artillery, 1, 0, SE, nil, 1, 4 ; CoL
Heavy Artillery, 1, 0, Alp, nil, 0, 4 ; Whe

Armoured Tactics, 1, 0, CA, nil, 1, 1 ; Mob

Armoured Vehicles I, 1, 0, Cmb, nil, 1, 4 ; Stl
Armoured Vehicles II, 1, 0, Eng, nil, 1, 4 ; Alp
Armoured Vehicles III, 1, 0, Whe, nil, 1, 4 ; SE

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Atom Research I, 1, 0, Roc, nil, 3, 4 ; Pot 65
Atom Research II, 1, 0, Pot, nil, 3, 4 ; Mag 45
Atom Research III, 1, 0, Mag, nil, 3, 4 ; Ref

Atomic Tests I, 1, 0, Exp, nil, 2, 4 ; Wri
Atomic Tests II, 1, 0, Wri, nil, 2, 4 ; Bro
Atomic Tests III, 1, 0, Bro, nil, 3, 4 ; Esp

Atom Bomb, 1, 0, Ref, nil, 3, 4 ; NF

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Admiralty, 1, 0, Cst, nil, 2, 2 ; Nav
DD Ship Class, 1, 0, Nav, nil, 2, 2 ; Pla
CA Ship Class, 1, 0, Pla, nil, 2, 2 ; War
BB Ship Class, 1, 0, War, nil, 2, 2 ; Hor
CV Ship Class, 1, 0, NP, AFl, 2, 2 ; Chi
Super BB Ship Class, 1, 0, Chi, nil, 2, 2 ; Sea 75
SS Sub Class, 1, 0, Ato, nil, 0, 2 ; Map
Improved Naval Tactics, 1, 0, Hor, nil, 2, 2 ; NP

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Air Force, 1, 0, Cst, nil, 0, 2 ; AFl 0
AA Emplacements, 1, 0, AFl, nil, 0, 2 ; Rec

Light Bombers, 1, 0, AFl, nil, 0, 2 ; Ato
Medium Bombers, 1, 0, Map, nil, 0, 2 ; Ast
Heavy Bombers, 1, 0, ToG, nil, 0, 2 ; Sth

Fighters I, 1, 0, AFl, nil, 0, 2 ; Fli 30
Fighters II, 1, 0, Fli, nil, 0, 2 ; Phy
Fighters III, 1, 0, Phy, nil, 0, 2 ; Rob

Advanced Fighters, 1, 0, Ato, nil, 0, 2 ; ToG

Advanced Aeronautics I, 1, 0, SFl, nil, 2, 4 ; Gen
Advanced Aeronautics II,1, 0, Gen, nil, 2, 4 ; Exp
Advanced Aeronautics III,1, 0, NF, nil, 2, 4 ; SFl

I reckon we could edit and use this sturcture as a guide.

PS
Are we going to allow diplomatic options for this scen?

[Palaiologos]

What is so special about Academia's formula?

It looks like an ordinary tech tree to me.

[curtsibling]

Well, yes it is...
But it is how it is used is the charm!
Academia opened my eyes to a new way of doing a tree.
Giving everyone the techs, but using the X1-X7 techs to restrict the units to their various factions.

Of course the categories can be as selective as we want...

Meaning private or share-alike tech areas...

[Palaiologos]

Dude thats the oldest trick in the book!

All the scenarios in Microprose's Conflicts in civilization have it!

[academia]

Dude thats the oldest trick in the book!

hehe... i know!!!!
Anyway, it seems that our old friend, mr. curtstibling, didn´t have that recipe

I just simply freed his mind

[curtsibling]

My mind is freeee!

Sometimes when you are creating stuff, you forget the simple solutions!

[Cifer Almasy]

Meanwhile... do you have some graphics for me?
Though everything I need is these ones from DVII. So forget my first question!

If I should have some special request I will come and grouch again!

[Cifer Almasy]

EEK I always hated these codes... I have some ideas yet and I tried to explain my ideas in this following text.

Perhaps you can see what I thought of.
The problem is: Where can I start? All these nasty rules lines...

EDIT: I tried to translate...

So what do we need?
Techs, given per :
"Moskau taken"
"Leningrad taken"
"Stalingrad taken"
(2 of those should be the techs which give you the "modern city" gfx)

if you have those you get:
"Großdeutsches Reich" (or Eternal Reich)
which allows:
Wonder: "Russischer Untermensch"(Hooverdamm)
Unit: Russian Slave

-------

Then there should be basis techs like:
Infantrie I
Infantrie II
Infantrie III

(which give the individual Inf to every civ)

Panzer I
Panzer II
Panzer III

(the same thing with Panzers...)

Air Force I
Air Force II
Air Force III (I need a neutral term for "Air Units")

(...and Fighters as well as Bombers...)

Bomber I
...

Bomber III

[Cifer Almasy]

Some questions to experts:
Where shall I start with the tree?
Should I just begin with the first tech and change names preqs and stuff till the last?
And what techs are important regarding that they have a special meaning?
Which ones change graphics, e.g.?
Which two were these which changed to "modern" city gfx?

I am a little swampt...

PS: ehm... what was the difference between "nil" and "non" as preqs?

[jasev]

Where shall I start with the tree?
Should I just begin with the first tech and change names preqs and stuff till the last?

That's what I usually do when I build a techtree "from scratch". Take a pen and lots of paper and draw a tree.

And what techs are important regarding that they have a special meaning?
Which ones change graphics, e.g.?
Which two were these which changed to "modern" city gfx?

I'm not sure, but "Industrialization" may change city graphics to industrial, and "electronics"+"automobile" to modern.

PS: ehm... what was the difference between "nil" and "non" as preqs?

"nil": No pre-requisite.
"no": Impossible to research.

[Cifer Almasy]

Thanks!

It is really nice how people here at the scenario league help each other. I really love this community...

[Cifer Almasy]

Jim, Curt and I had an idea (in fact the original idea came from me ) and I think its grandiose:

We decided to combine units to "COMBAT UNIT" - Units:
That means combined Fighter-Bomber Units to simulate real Air Attacks (as single Bombers always cooperated with Fighter support and just together were able to destroy enemys Army,while Bobers in fact often just destroyed strategic targets which opens space for fighter attacks).
I thought of two categories of Aircraft units:
Attacking Combat Units (Stuka/Me) for example and Defense Combat Units (ME/AA Batterie).
Also Infantry always had some cannons with them and perhaps a little Flak or something (Not every Unit should be changed as I think Long Range Bombers and Tanks should remain as they always used to be).
All these ideas have to be developed- so all you WW2 specialists are welcome to post your ideas.
The main target is to simulate a Realistic Warfare!

So I ask you: What combinations make sense regarding a good result of using lots of different units for well combined attacks?

As I am moving house tomorrow (I am going studying in Düsseldorf ) and it may take about 3 weeks until I have my new PC and internet access again, I would like to transfer managing this thread and developing this idea to Jim Panse (if he is back from Denmark) and Curt Sibling- my Project Partners and friends!

Thanks in advance,

So long, Cifer

[Palaiologos]

Self proppelled artillery and tanks,
infantry and combat engineers,
Tanks and infantry(mobile),
Marines and combat engineers,
Paratroopers should be solo,


And you know i don't think Stukas operated alongside fighter planes.They were capable of defending themselves.

Good luck in Dusseldorf!

[fairline]

Stukas were appalling at defending themselves! The Stuka attacks on British convoys in the English Channel and the Chain Home Radar stations at the outset of the Battle of Britain were torn to shreds by the RAF.

Stukas were slow and unmanoevrable and insufficiently armed. They were devestating during the attack on Poland and during the battle of France, but were massacred during the Battle of Britain. When up-armed as tank-busters they became useful again against the Russians, but always required a fighter escort. By contrast, the Russian equivalent, the Sturmovik, was as maneouvrable as a fighter and very durable.

[Palaiologos]

Hmmmm......you are propably right fairline.

I had that Stuka pilot ace in my mind responsible for shooting down many fighter planes and i took that as a rule.