Scenario Design questions

[nae'blis]

I've been working for some time on an Aiel War scenario, based on the Wheel of Time series. A few things are coming up as sticking points...

1) Tech trading. Ugly, ugly, ugly. I've read the Sleague tips and anything I could find here on the matter and it all seems to come down to removing diplomatic units and barring negotiations (although someone said Allied AI civs could trade techs even if negotiations were barred). However for this scenario it would be nice, if not essential, for different civ's to be able to change their relationships, i.e. the White Tower and Tear may not be at Peace (merely neutral) at the beginning, but as the Aiel threat becomes more apparent they should be able to mass their units without going at one another. If I simply need to make everyone west of the Dragonwall at Peace (or even Allied) with each other and disable all negotiations, then I will, but is it definitively decided that CivII cannot prevent tech trading via normal means? I have disabled tech from conquest and reduced the AI value of civ-specific techs to 0.
A no-no tech would work of course except that you cannot build units based on a no-no tech, which defeats the purpose...

2) Barbarian cities for Ogier. An AI barbarian city seems to unfortify everything and go on a rampage, which is decidedly out of character in this case. Is the solution simply to make Ogier have Movement 0? However I was thinking of using them as random event-given 'Engineers' which would at the least require two types of ogier, AI and player-controlled.

3) Calendar. The Wheel of Time uses a 13-month lunar calendar, but I'm willing to forgo one month if needed. I've found where to rename the months/"AD" suffix, can you use the same technique of 'extending' menus to the month list? Would be a decidedly interesting technique in non-Earth maps...

4) Any way to force one city in one civ to be able to create a special unit? (I'm thinking of the Whitecloaks unit from Amador, which is only one city in the "Southlands" nation). There was a thread on making Damascus (as in steel) a 'sub-civ' but it would require using up one of my civs and I'm already short a few. (Mayene a city of the Tairens? Blood and ashes!)

5) This isn't important until later, but... there are several places where the Difficulty rating titles are stored. Which one affects the actual list shown? Labels.txt? And which files do NOT get 'overwritten' when in a Scenario file. I'm thinking for example of city.gif which you have to manually copy over for it to have an effect. I heard that game.txt and pedia.txt might be like this but not consistently.

6. I can't think of a 6...can you?

Thanks in advance.

Ah. One other tidbit. What the heck is version 5.2.5f? That's what my MGE says it is, which I thought was supposed to be 2.78 or something....it's got a version date of 16-November-98. I can't find anything on this version anywhere. I haven't run into any bugs though so I don't know if I even need a patch or not...

[Henrik]

First I would like to say that I think it is great that somone is making a scenario about these books!
I hope you succed

quote: Originally posted by nae'blis on 05-08-2001 01:50 PM I've been working for some time on an Aiel War scenario, based on the Wheel of Time series. A few things are coming up as sticking points... 1) Tech trading. Ugly, ugly, ugly. I've read the Sleague tips and anything I could find here on the matter and it all seems to come down to removing diplomatic units and barring negotiations (although someone said Allied AI civs could trade techs even if negotiations were barred). However for this scenario it would be nice, if not essential, for different civ's to be able to change their relationships, i.e. the White Tower and Tear may not be at Peace (merely neutral) at the beginning, but as the Aiel threat becomes more apparent they should be able to mass their units without going at one another. If I simply need to make everyone west of the Dragonwall at Peace (or even Allied) with each other and disable all negotiations, then I will, but is it definitively decided that CivII cannot prevent tech trading via normal means? I have disabled tech from conquest and reduced the AI value of civ-specific techs to 0. A no-no tech would work of course except that you cannot build units based on a no-no tech, which defeats the purpose...

In my experience you can build units from such techs.
Otherwise have a few basic techs from which all units are derived and everyone but the nation that is supposed to build the uniqe unit has the obsolete thech for the uniqe unit (which is a no no tech).

quote: 2) Barbarian cities for Ogier. An AI barbarian city seems to unfortify everything and go on a rampage, which is decidedly out of character in this case. Is the solution simply to make Ogier have Movement 0? However I was thinking of using them as random event-given 'Engineers' which would at the least require two types of ogier, AI and player-controlled.

I have quite the opposite problem in my scenario my barbarians wont attack ever. But if you have the steddings guarded by settlers then that would explain why they go out of the cities.

quote: 3) Calendar. The Wheel of Time uses a 13-month lunar calendar, but I'm willing to forgo one month if needed. I've found where to rename the months/"AD" suffix, can you use the same technique of 'extending' menus to the month list? Would be a decidedly interesting technique in non-Earth maps...

I am not sure I understand your question

quote: 4) Any way to force one city in one civ to be able to create a special unit? (I'm thinking of the Whitecloaks unit from Amador, which is only one city in the "Southlands" nation). There was a thread on making Damascus (as in steel) a 'sub-civ' but it would require using up one of my civs and I'm already short a few. (Mayene a city of the Tairens? Blood and ashes!)

You can do this two ways:
Either have a random event create whitecloaks in Amador from time to time or:
Set the whitcloak unit to nil nil and order Amador to build it, then change it to no no and Amador will still build it (if they change production they wont be able to build it again though so this is lost on the AI).

quote: 5) This isn't important until later, but... there are several places where the Difficulty rating titles are stored. Which one affects the actual list shown? Labels.txt? And which files do NOT get 'overwritten' when in a Scenario file. I'm thinking for example of city.gif which you have to manually copy over for it to have an effect. I heard that game.txt and pedia.txt might be like this but not consistently.

The difficulties in labels.txt are the ones you poick from in the begining and the ones in the rules.txt are the ones shown in the highscore after completing the scenario.
In older versions game, labels and pedia had to be copied manually into the support folder, in MGE you can place all files from the support folder in the scenario folder whit effect.

quote: Ah. One other tidbit. What the heck is version 5.2.5f? That's what my MGE says it is, which I thought was supposed to be 2.78 or something....it's got a version date of 16-November-98. I can't find anything on this version anywhere. I haven't run into any bugs though so I don't know if I even need a patch or not...

Don't worry 2.78 was for original civ you have MGE so thats no problem

[Henrik]

quote: Originally posted by nae'blis on 05-08-2001 01:50 PM 6. I can't think of a 6...can you?

Hmm... All books havent been written yet have they?
How are you planning it all to end?

[nae'blis]

quote: Originally posted by Henrik on 05-08-2001 02:20 PM (Re: #1) In my experience you can build units from such techs. Otherwise have a few basic techs from which all units are derived and everyone but the nation that is supposed to build the uniqe unit has the obsolete thech for the uniqe unit (which is a no no tech).

Hmmm. I guess I was going on what Sleague said without actually trying to build those units. If you can build from something that is no-no that will solve the majority of my problem.
Alternatively, you're right, I've already done that with Trade (Tinkers for countries, Caravans for the Aiel).

quote: (Re: #2) I have quite the opposite problem in my scenario my barbarians wont attack ever. But if you have the steddings guarded by settlers then that would explain why they go out of the cities.

Actually them being Engineers is a recent development, I took out the stedding after the Ogier started going to the 4 corners...
If they are given the role 'defend' will they still be able to perform settler operations?

quote: (Re: #3) I am not sure I understand your question

Okay. The Wheel of Time world has a 13-month year, but Civ is set up for 12-month years. The scenario will run from early 976 NE to the end of 978 NE, approximately 40 turns as currently envisioned. I know where to change the names of the months (labels.txt) and the "A.D", but I am still left with cutting off one of the months.
There is a 'trick' in some of the menu options where you can add additional steps (i.e. something beyond Diety, or beyond a Wet world), and I didn't know if it would work or not.

quote: (Re: #4) You can do this two ways: Either have a random event create whitecloaks in Amador from time to time or: Set the whitcloak unit to nil nil and order Amador to build it, then change it to no no and Amador will still build it (if they change production they wont be able to build it again though so this is lost on the AI).

I've done it both ways so far (a random event that creates non-veteran Whitecloaks in Amadician territory, and setting Amador as the only city able to create veteran Whitecloaks from the beginning). This is to help the AI as well as the player (if they have to make a city improvement, for example).

quote: (Re: #5) The difficulties in labels.txt are the ones you poick from in the begining and the ones in the rules.txt are the ones shown in the highscore after completing the scenario.

I've done some fiddling with it so far, although copying my new labels.txt into the Aiel War directory didn't change the settings when I started my scenario. Any suggestions on what is tripping me up?

quote: Don't worry 2.78 was for original civ you have MGE so thats no problem

So there are no bug patches for MGE?

[nae'blis]

quote: Originally posted by Henrik on 05-08-2001 02:34 PM Hmm... All books havent been written yet have they? How are you planning it all to end?

That's a large part of the reason I'm only doing the Aiel War (aside from the fact that the One Power's effects cannot be adequately represented with Civ's game engine). This will only cover the years between Laman's cutting down of Avendoraldera in 976 and the battle around Tar Valon in 978.

[Henrik]

quote: Originally posted by nae'blis on 05-08-2001 03:36 PM That's a large part of the reason I'm only doing the Aiel War (aside from the fact that the One Power's effects cannot be adequately represented with Civ's game engine). This will only cover the years between Laman's cutting down of Avendoraldera in 976 and the battle around Tar Valon in 978.

I guess I should've read your post more carefully

[Henrik]

quote: Originally posted by nae'blis on 05-08-2001 03:21 PM So there are no bug patches for MGE?

I wouldn't say that, I think the latest patch for MGE is available here at Apolyton

quote: I've done some fiddling with it so far, although copying my new labels.txt into the Aiel War directory didn't change the settings when I started my scenario. Any suggestions on what is tripping me up?

I could be wrong, it can be changed in the game.txt to I think

quote: Actually them being Engineers is a recent development, I took out the stedding after the Ogier started going to the 4 corners... If they are given the role 'defend' will they still be able to perform settler operations?

No, and if you give them a civilian role (like settling ro diplomacy) they will display the barbarian leader message when killed (if they are owned by the barbarian civ that is ). This is something I use in a scenario of my own to ilustate the saking of villages (0 move barb diplo units).
You can even have a picture other than the unit killed in the dialogue by changing the barbarian leader icon but not the unit icon that you use (as long as you arent using the diplo slot in the rules.txt/units.gif for the unit in which case the graphic of the barb leader is shown for both the unit and the message).

quote: Okay. The Wheel of Time world has a 13-month year, but Civ is set up for 12-month years. The scenario will run from early 976 NE to the end of 978 NE, approximately 40 turns as currently envisioned. I know where to change the names of the months (labels.txt) and the "A.D", but I am still left with cutting off one of the months. There is a 'trick' in some of the menu options where you can add additional steps (i.e. something beyond Diety, or beyond a Wet world), and I didn't know if it would work or not.

I don't know how to do this, although I do sugest you post in the sleague forum for more responses
Not many people post in the creation forum since the sleague forum serves the same purpose.

[shamrock]

Henrik's correct - it is game.txt for the difficulty labels.

Yes, you need the patch: For MGE, it should read:
Civilization II Multiplayer Gold 5.4 of Multiplayer 26-March-99 Patch 3

[nae'blis]

quote: Originally posted by shamrock on 05-08-2001 06:14 PM Henrik's correct - it is game.txt for the difficulty labels. Yes, you need the patch: For MGE, it should read: Civilization II Multiplayer Gold 5.4 of Multiplayer 26-March-99 Patch 3

Thank you very much for your help!

[nae'blis]

Well, I got the Ogier problem solved by making then 0 movement with a Defend role. The event-given Ogier will be the Engineers.

The calendar works for 12 months but not for 13 (it cuts off the 13th month). So I just cut out one at random. Nice thing is it let me use the full month name instead of an abbreviation.

Now for the tech tree headache...

[Henrik]

I know it must be a minor concern right now but what graphics are you going to use?

[nae'blis]

quote: Originally posted by Henrik on 05-09-2001 02:27 PM I know it must be a minor concern right now but what graphics are you going to use?

Actually I did most of this initially because it was what sparked my interest first (the only other WoT scenario I'd seen had 0 revised graphics). I've had to create the Aiel graphics out of whole cloth, and modified dozens of others. Some came from other medieval unit/icon graphics initially but most are unrecognizeably changed. The terrain modifications used in HiRes are implemented, again with changes that I found more aesthetically pleasing.

[Henrik]

Cool, I'm looking forward to playing it when it is released (and if you want I could playtest it too ).