Announcement

**BeBMan** · January 5, 2001, 15:04

Just downloaded it. Haven´t played yet, but here are some general thoughts:

-You should include a readme file that contains a description of the scenario, the objectives and the credits
-you should include a pedia.txt (without it, the standard civ2 civilopedia with the wrong descriptions will pop up)
-Artwork looks good, like the units, sounds are great
-Why is the events file so small? You have enough space for more (more events = more fun)
-perhaps you should put the sounds in a separate Zipfile
-the Zip contains two titles, only the Titke.GIF is needed

Ok, I´ll give more comments when I have played, but I can´t promise that, because I have to finish my own scenario...

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Civ2000

**The Capo** · January 5, 2001, 19:29

Okay, I didn't include a readme or pedia because that is going to be in the final polished version, but I might as well give a run down of the situation previous to the war so people know why/who they are fighting....

On May 23rd, 1618 the citizens of Prague took it upon themselves to throw the Habsburg family from their lands. This marked the tenth rebellion in the duchy of Bohemia within the past nine years. Originally the Habsburg family (which was comprised of devout Catholics) forged a compact with the people of Bohemia, the pact stated that the Bohemians would be free to worship whatever religion they wished, and despite the fact that 66% of Bohemia was in fact Catholic, they were still very proud of their religious tolerance.

When the Archbishop of Prague decided it was time to force Catholicism on the people of Bohemia, they locked the Bohemian assembly from the city hall, and began to force Catholicism on the city. Outraged, Bohemian peasants stormed the governor's mansion throwing two members of the Habsburg family from a second story window (neither died) along with two of their officials. The king of Austria Ferdinand, who was also next in line to become the Holy Roman Emperor, decided he would send troops into the area to put the revolt down. The lords of Bohemia went to the Prussians, Brandenburgs, and Transylvanians for help, all of them obliged under the command of King Frederick V of Prussia.

Meanwhile, the Habsburg Empire grew stronger, consolidating power in the Rhine Valley, Italy, Spain and Germany. The kingdoms of Germany convened in the Palatine in order to forge an alliance that would free Germany from the grips of the Habsburg's Holy Roman Empire. Thus formed the Protestant Union.

At around this same time, Poland and Sweden ended a war that resulted in Sweden's control of Estonia and Finland, while Poland seized much of Russia and the Ukraine, tensions ran high between these two Batlic powers, both wanted full control of the important northern sea.

France was growing stronger, but were emersed in internal combat. The Huguenots were fighting strong in western France, surrounding the city of La Rochelle. The Bourbon kings were meeting with Louis trying to iron out some sort of way to keep France unified. The last thing France wanted was a stronger House of Habsburg, they were also allied with Sweden.

The merchant states of Italy (Genoa, Savoy, and the Republic of Venice) decided that if they were divided as usual, the Habsburgs would overrun them, securing Italy for thier own. As France was too busy to protect them, they went to the Netherlands and Britain in order to protect their collective interests. A powerful trade pact was forged in the Savoy city of Lyons, the League of Lyons served as a major trade pact, but it would soon become a military pact.

All of these events, including the continueing battles between Spain and the Netherlands came to a head in 1618, as the mere revolt in Prague sparked the wick that exploded into the Thirty Years' War....

**BeBMan** · January 5, 2001, 19:43

Stop, stop , stop, I surrender

I would only mention the readme, because I´ve seen some scns where the creators have forgotten it...

BTW, it´s for MGE, isn´t it? I tried to start it, but I have FW, so I received an error. I´ll try to convert it to FW with the CivConverter, hope it works .

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Civ2000

**Jay Bee** · January 5, 2001, 21:11

Nitpicker's note:

quote:

the Habsburg Empire grew stronger, consolidating power in the Rhine Valley, Italy, Spain and Germany

In 1618 Spain had long ceased to be part of the Habsburg Empire, if a thing called like that ever existed

BeBro, what's the Civ converter? I've been absent a lot of time and missed that prodigy

**The Capo** · January 5, 2001, 21:19

Its funny that someone from the Spanish Civ II site would not know the history of Spain.

During the Thirty Years' War the king of Spain was a Habsburg and was allied with the Habsburgs when fighting in the Thirty Years' War.

I believe they teach about the Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs in High School history, but I could be mistaken.

I am VERY sure that the Habsburg dynasty was in power within Spain during the Thirty Years' War.

**Jay Bee** · January 5, 2001, 22:13

My Balti-moron friend, what's really funny is that somebody who is trying to do a meaningful Thirty Years War scenario does not know that Spain was not a part of the "Habsburg Empire" at that time. What do you understand by "Habsburg Empire"? Maybe that is the root of the problem.

That an Habsburg king was in power in 1618 in Spain does not mean at all that Spain was part of an "Habsburg Empire". England and The Netherlands allied against Spain in that epoch and they never formed part of a common empire, nation or whatever.

Spain and Austria were united ONLY from 1516 to 1556, when HR Emperor Charles V (Charles I of Spain) received the crown of Spain from the hands of his mother Juana I of Castile.

When Charles I retired in 1556 he split his empire between his son and his nephew. Do you know why Charles I did that? Several reasons. The two most important were that the interests of Spain and Austria were radically distinct and, more importantly, because the German electors requested it so.

Of course that Spain and Austria were bound by family pacts, just in the same way that Bourbon Spain was bound to France by similar family pacts later in history. But an alliance between two countries does not mean that they are the same, which was my only point.

So, when the teacher was talking about the Habsburgs in High School you were probably outside chasing after some petite blonde, right?

____
Another nitpicker's note, this time about your scen itself; Where did you get the Habsburg flag from? This is the Spanish Habsburg flag:

Background changed sometimes to yellow or light red (see Allard's Dutch Golden Age scenario)

Oops, another one, Aragon is not a city.

**Snog** · January 5, 2001, 22:19

Wow, JayBee, you really rip to shreds. I want you to critique my scenario in a couple days when I'm done with it. Just make sure you play it too and test whether its fun, not just accurate!

**BeBMan** · January 6, 2001, 08:06

Jay Bee, the MGEConverter (real name) is a little tool made by Angelo Scotto. I don´t remember from where I downloaded it, but perhaps its in the Apolyton database?

You can drag a MGE scn file on it to convert the scenario to FW. Works with many scenarios, you only have to look if the events.txt of the MGE scenario is to big for FW, than you have to split up the events in several parts, or delete them

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Civ2000

**BeBMan** · January 6, 2001, 08:12

Just converted your scn to FW, Capo, works well

I converted the file tyw.scn, what is the file start.sav?

There is a problem with your title.gif, I think it doesn´t use the correct civ2 palette, so it looks weird when the scenario starts. I can try to fix it for you, ok?

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Civ2000

**The Capo** · January 6, 2001, 10:54

Not only cities are cities in this game, I made the Principality of Orange a city when it wasn't a city. Upper and Lower Palatine are cities when they arent, and White Mountain is a city when it isn't one. They are meant as objectives, or possibly battle sites.

The flag I used was not the flag of the Spanish Habsburgs, it was the flag of the Austrian Habsburgs during the TYW, used by the military.

**The Capo** · January 6, 2001, 11:02

There are only seven available nations in civ, during the Thirty Years war there were so many....

The Turks
Austria
Spain
France
Denmark
Sweden
Poland
Prussia
Brandenburg
Bohemia
Transylvania
The Netherlands
Genoa
Kingdom of Savoy
Switzerland
Republic of Venice
The Papal States
Britain

So I had to figure out how to fit all of these nations together, so I looked through the history books and first looked at alliances.

After the first year of war Denmark went into an alliance with Sweden in which they basically became Sweden's puppets, therefore I lumped them together.

The Republic of Venice, GEnoa, Papal States, Savoy, Nehterlands and Britain formed an alliance to further trade and curb Habsburg power, so they were lumped into the League of Lyons.

Since Transylvania, Bohemia, Brandenburg and Prussia were all lead by members of the same family, who gave Frederick command of their armies during this time, they were lumped together in the Prussian stack.

Since Spain's forces were under Austrian command, while Spain had numerous generals, and Austria and Spain were allied to the point that they would have NEVER broken up, and always have been at war with mutual enemies there is no reason not to combine the two. Not only that but the Habsburg family convened with eachother to create plans. Even their American colonies were collusive, was not Maximillian the governor of Mexico? Maximillian was Austrian.

The Poles and French get to be the only civ that wasn't lumped with another because of their political situation.

I hated making the Turks Barbarians....

I researched this war heavily, all of the battles, the roads, city sizes, the state of nations at the start of the war.

Thanks for the suggestions, how was the game itself?

**The Capo** · January 6, 2001, 11:04

There are only seven available nations in civ, during the Thirty Years war there were so many....

The Turks
Austria
Spain
France
Denmark
Sweden
Poland
Prussia
Brandenburg
Bohemia
Transylvania
The Netherlands
Genoa
Kingdom of Savoy
Switzerland
Republic of Venice
The Papal States
Britain

So I had to figure out how to fit all of these nations together, so I looked through the history books and first looked at alliances.

After the first year of war Denmark went into an alliance with Sweden in which they basically became Sweden's puppets, therefore I lumped them together.

The Republic of Venice, GEnoa, Papal States, Savoy, Nehterlands and Britain formed an alliance to further trade and curb Habsburg power, so they were lumped into the League of Lyons.

Since Transylvania, Bohemia, Brandenburg and Prussia were all lead by members of the same family, who gave Frederick command of their armies during this time, they were lumped together in the Prussian stack.

Since Spain's forces were under Austrian command, while Spain had numerous generals, and Austria and Spain were allied to the point that they would have NEVER broken up, and always have been at war with mutual enemies there is no reason not to combine the two. Not only that but the Habsburg family convened with eachother to create plans. Even their American colonies were collusive, was not Maximillian the governor of Mexico? Maximillian was Austrian.

The Poles and French get to be the only civ that wasn't lumped with another because of their political situation.

I hated making the Turks Barbarians....

I researched this war heavily, all of the battles, the roads, city sizes, the state of nations at the start of the war.

Thanks for the suggestions, how was the game itself?

**Exile** · January 6, 2001, 11:22

Chronological note;

Maximillian I of Mexico; 1860-1865.

Thirty Years War; 1618-1648

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

**Athena** · January 6, 2001, 12:53

Looks interesting....

[This message has been edited by Athena (edited January 06, 2001).]

Announcement

Thirty Years' War by Tony DeNucci; Second Playtest Version!!!!

Thirty Years' War by Tony DeNucci; Second Playtest Version!!!!

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