Some thoughts on WW2 era governments and Civ

[winterfritz]

Originally posted by Case
As for it being too advantageous, yeah you're right. I'm considering swapping War Democracy with Communism, for the reasons that Jim suggests, but I'll have to play around with this (I don't want the Soviets being too good [though as the map stops at the Urals and Caspian perhaps some help would be justified]). There is an argument that the Western Governments didn't really totally move off war footing untill the 70's (much of the beurocracy of the war economy was easily switched to enacting Keynsian policies). In addition, the size of national militaries has remained at historically high levels since WW2.

Wow, didn't know that. You're right, thats a fair argument for making War Democracy Fundamentalism. Still, theres the problem that while its realistic to have a completely happy population when you're off crusading against the evil dictatorships, would the population of say Britain been just as happy - or at least content - if the PM had just declared war on France for no reason and invaded her? Theres nothing to stop a fundamentalist government from declaring war on nations that a 'war democracy' really wouldn't have...

And still, the fundamentalists would lag in science because of Republic's double amount of trade arrows, even if you changed the fundy science penalty to 0%.

Off topic for a moment (well, still kinda on it really ): how are you simulating the US in this scenario?

[HisMajestyBOB]

The fundamentalists might not lag too much behind the republican fascists, since fundies get bonus money from churches, etc and dont have to mess around with entertainers, etc. Give em SETI and they should do fine especially if they have a large empure.

[Case]

Originally posted by winterfritz
Still, theres the problem that while its realistic to have a completely happy population when you're off crusading against the evil dictatorships, would the population of say Britain been just as happy - or at least content - if the PM had just declared war on France for no reason and invaded her? Theres nothing to stop a fundamentalist government from declaring war on nations that a 'war democracy' really wouldn't have...

Stop poking holes in my plans!
Anyway, Britian did declare war on France and the public seemed to be fairly happy with it (I'm talking about the destruction of the French Fleet in 1940, and not the later campaigns against Vichy France). I could have some kind of event that takes money off the British and French when they destroy each others units...

And still, the fundamentalists would lag in science because of Republic's double amount of trade arrows, even if you changed the fundy science penalty to 0%.

What Bob said In addition, the Facists are going to have serious cash flow problems, so they won't be able to put the science rate too high.

Off topic for a moment (well, still kinda on it really ): how are you simulating the US in this scenario?

At present there's a really big city called 'United States' off Ireland for trade purposes.
In addition, I'm going to impliment a 'US Enters War' tech which will give the Brits and/or French heaps of American troops and weapons.
I just need to think of the appropriate way to give the players this tech... (December 1941 and/or the Nazi conquest of London perhaps?)

[winterfritz]

If this is a AoW style scen, then Dec 1941 is probably not a legitimate trigger. After all, whos to say that England and France will even be at war with the Nazis at that point, in which case it will look kinda silly if the isolationist US declares war on them. Their taking London is a fine trigger though, maybe put in other cities as well so that they can enter on nearly the same time as they really did.

[winterfritz]

Oh, and that sounds good with the Fundamentalism, especially with SETI. I assume Britain will have this wonder. I'm also guessing that Germany will have Women's Suffrage?

Will it be possible for civs to change governments in the scen?

[Case]

Originally posted by winterfritz
If this is a AoW style scen, then Dec 1941 is probably not a legitimate trigger.

I think that it's OK.
I'd explain it with a text box along the lines of "following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, President Roosevelt begins sending troops to Europe to safeguard the European democracies from the totalitarian Axis nations".
When you consider theat the Japanese would have attacked the British in Malaya, and FDR was keen to get involved in Europe, it makes some sence

Oh, and that sounds good with the Fundamentalism, especially with SETI. I assume Britain will have this wonder. I'm also guessing that Germany will have Women's Suffrage?

Yes and no. Giving the Germans Women's Suffrage would cancel out the unhappiness caused by troops being outside cities, and I don't want that.

[Thoddy]

I think fundy is not the appropriate form of gouvernment for fascism.
because the system of suppression need a lot of ressources. Monarchy and despotism are the best choice.

But monarchy and despotism have a lot of corruption and waste in terms of Civ nearby capital. To compensate this you should hexedit(citytweak) a palace in every axis (german) city at the beginning of world war 2. So most of the conquered cities has lot of corruption and waste and the player shouldnt able to manage sufficient production from this cities.

[Caspian]

Ecthelion, I think that you need to read a bit more history. Nazi Germany was extreamly corrupt and inefficant. Nazi war production was crippled by political favoratism and beurocracy.

Hitlers Nazi's believed in survival of the strongest. It is conceivable that Nazi war industry purposely mirrored this ideology in that, everyone was competing with each other for resources so those who were most persistent won through. The rational being that the most persistent is the strongest and thus (in Hitlers crackpot mind) the most deserving.

Just a thought

[Case]

That sounds a lot like what I do in economics

[Caspian]

Yeah, it is case. In pre-history, before currency...before even ppl thought of trading ...erm...chickens and whotnot it was the guy with the bigest stick that got the resources. Unfortunately their ancestors still sit on the thrones of the worlds monarchies.

I've done economics too