The Pacific Project

[The Apologist]

Originally posted by Soundwave
For the people that dont live in New Zealand shhh!!!, The New Zealand wars were not one but many right from the discovery of nz to the about 1914. Also in New Zealand we use Aoteroa, it describes both 3 islands, not the Chathams.

The New Zealand Wars were fought through to 1914? Are you exaggerating for effect? I've never seen anything like that suggested by a serious historian. Feel free to enlighten me, either on the forum (the conflict would make a fine scenario IMO) or by e-mail.

[Stefan Härtel]

To show you I'm actually doing something, here is a first screenshot.

[Cyrion]

Thanks Stefan!

Wunderschön !!!

It looks great, Stefan!!!

Now just keep on working...

[Kalmer]

How the island can be so big? Are you using gigamap?

[Soundwave]

I'm back, so the NZ wars did finish back then, well 1914 when the Marois had there own king, with his own parilment that had eletcity i forget the name, and the police moved in and that was it and no further bloodshed, as two police officers were killed :P

And anywhere in the east or west m,iddle of the north island would be acceptable landing spot or 'first spot' for settlers

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Soundwave
I'm back, so the NZ wars did finish back then, well 1914 when the Marois had there own king, with his own parilment that had eletcity i forget the name, and the police moved in and that was it and no further bloodshed, as two police officers were killed :P

I think its a bit of a stretch to use the term "war" to refer to any of the "disputes" outside the only major period of conflict - that being primarily during the late 1850's through the 1860's IIRC.

The only major "battle", as it would have been called in European terms, was during the mid-60's in the King country.
The others were basically light skirmishes - a few dozens of participants - and Maori raids, culminating in pursuits by the British army, and ultimately, retreats on the part of the Maori to regions less accessible.

Maori pa's were basically fortified marae's. Stockades, stakes, generally built on hilltops, the whole works. Highly sophisticated for their level of technology. These were not a response to European incursions though, rather a resultant of their own inter-tribal wars. They were never designed to stand up to heavy canon although their general inaccessibility contributed heavily to the Brits being largely unable to bring such weapons to bear.

I have no idea whether or not Aotearoa was originally used for the whole country or not (I would suspect not based upon the Maori "people" being broken up into seven different tribes and lacking the sort of worldview that would encourage them to think of all of the islands as a single entity) but it is the term we use today for all 3 main aslands.

[The Apologist]

Originally posted by Soundwave
I'm back, so the NZ wars did finish back then, well 1914 when the Marois had there own king, with his own parilment that had eletcity i forget the name, and the police moved in and that was it and no further bloodshed, as two police officers were killed :P

If that's your definition for warfare, then the New Zealand Wars are still going (or only very recently finished). I agree with Ravagon on the general period of the conflict, though I seem to recall that the last phase of the wars was fought in the 1870s.

On the other hand:

Originally posted by Ravagon
Maori pa's were basically fortified marae's. Stockades, stakes, generally built on hilltops, the whole works. Highly sophisticated for their level of technology. These were not a response to European incursions though, rather a resultant of their own inter-tribal wars. They were never designed to stand up to heavy canon although their general inaccessibility contributed heavily to the Brits being largely unable to bring such weapons to bear.

The statement above, while once popular, is quite false. The definitive source for the New Zealand Wars should be James Belich's book of the same name, and quite clearly illustrates the differences between the pa constructed before conflict with europeans, and the modern pa system constructed later.

[Stefan Härtel]

Wunderschön !!!

It looks great, Stefan!!!

Now just keep on working...

Danke I willl

How the island can be so big? Are you using gigamap?

Well, it's not the map I am using, just a simple made-for-screenshot thingy meant to present some terrain and units graphics (a Samoan chief and a Samoan lady/settler), but think of this as a rough scale for islands the size of Vanua Levu (the second largest of the Fiji islands). In general, most Polynesian and Micronesian isles will be about two or three squares in average.

[Soundwave]

Look forget about the NZ wars, just get the video, of James Belich, i had to watch it enough, he said the 'conflicts' didn't stop till 1914, ok?? (damn)

[Shaka Naldur]

you are working fast

nice screenshots!!!!

[ravagon]

Originally posted by The Apologist

The statement above, while once popular, is quite false. The definitive source for the New Zealand Wars should be James Belich's book of the same name, and quite clearly illustrates the differences between the pa constructed before conflict with europeans, and the modern pa system constructed later.

Are you sure about that? I saw a documentary about 10 years back or so about Maori life/civilization before/during European contact and the pa's portrayed therein were almost identical (to the untrained eye anyway) to similar constructions during Europe's dark ages.

Course it could've been creative license I suppose, now that I think of it ...

[Creative license ... ]

[Soundwave]

Ok, this is going away from the point, the best place for Maori Settlements would be in the west and east of the north island, and for the French would be where christchurch is (akaroa). And for the English would be the town above moderned auckland, i cant remember the name, but i was made of sailors, sealers, whalers, etc, a real ruff town.

[The Apologist]

Originally posted by ravagon
Are you sure about that? I saw a documentary about 10 years back or so about Maori life/civilization before/during European contact and the pa's portrayed therein were almost identical (to the untrained eye anyway) to similar constructions during Europe's dark ages.

Quite sure. You're right in that pre-contact Maori pa were similar to dark ages style fortifications, but the modern pa used to fight the British army were more sophisticated in design - if not appearance. It's worth noting that modern pa weren't extensively built, and weren't used to fortify settlements - this would account for their relative obscurity.

Artistic license may also be a factor, though.


While I'm at it: the screenshot looks beautiful, Stefan. In an attempt to be more useful, I've flicked through the Oxford History of New Zealand for a short summary of immediately salient facts (but my offer to track down specifics still stands).

The commonly accepted date of Polynesian settlement of New Zealand was around AD 800 - though more recent examination suggests that AD 1100 (or later) may be a more likely date. Settlement was fairly swift and quite extensive, though weighted towards the North Island. In the South Island, the population was concentrated to the north and east.

[Soundwave]

Originally posted by The Apologist

The commonly accepted date of Polynesian settlement of New Zealand was around AD 800 - though more recent examination suggests that AD 1100 (or later) may be a more likely date. Settlement was fairly swift and quite extensive, though weighted towards the North Island. In the South Island, the population was concentrated to the north and east.

I qrote a whole big essay practically and then it was gone! but i was saying, that in Otago there is a 'wall' of square rocks, dating back over 1000years and in the town where i grew up in, Blenhiem, in the Wariou Lagoons, there are Maori tools and moa bones dating back well over 100years, and even if you had the Maori colonization peroid, dont forget the Mori Mori were here before even the Maori and Europeans.

Right... thats that i think.

[Stefan Härtel]

Is there anybody out there?

Due to gameplay necessities/mechanics, I'm gonna create a special New Zealand terrain. Now I need three things - two ressources (Kiwi, Kiwi? ) and an appropriate name...