the SL forum and the future Civ3-Creation forum

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Kull
Don't get me wrong, the Spanish Civ Site Forum is a great place, but perhaps the advent of Civ3 means you've got "Charter" issues as well.

I'm pretty sure that some people (hint: Jay Bee and others at the Spanish Forum, for sure) will still be creating and playing Civ2 scenarios long after Civ3 is released.

In other words, and though I do have some high expectations on it, Civ3 doesn't mean the end of the world for the Civ2 community, does it?

[Jay Bee]

Kull,

Look again at our title: Spanish Civilization II Site Forum Civ3 is presently not an issue for me. As Fiera aptly said I and a few other will still be playing Civ2 for a long time...

Now seriously, The Spanish Civ Site forum will exist as long as the site exists and is kept reasonably updated. What would you say if I told you that there are currently 4 (four!) scenarios in progress by the regulars of that forum?. Whether the site gets into Civ3 or not, only time will tell. If I get bored with all this stuff and no one wanted to take over, then the forum should cease to exist as well.

Same rule should apply to the other HS's I think. If someone has the will to resurrect the SLeague, its forum should also go on, of course. Whether Sleeg does Civ2, Civ3 or both is beside the point in my eyes. The important thing is to keep the site alive. That's what really attracts people and makes it different imho. If not, let's all go to a generic Civ2/Civ3/whatever Creation forum, where's the difference?

You are also a veteran here. Remember the ol' good days of this forum? Compare with its present status. I'm not saying that what we see now is bad, I am just saying it is pretty different. As is now this place is no different from a generic Creation forum.

[The ANZAC]

Personally, I think Sleague can survive jsut as its own entity, with somewhat off-topic discussion on Civ2.

Mark: I know you are looking at this thread, so hear me now : Respond to the Avatar thread!!!!

[lord of the mark]

Ive come to this relatively late, but the distinction between Civ-2 creation and this forum have always been fairly clear to me. I am NOT an advanced scenario designer, and if i want tips on civ2 editing tools i go there. I come here for announcements of released scenarios, discussions of collaborative projects, requests for scens on a particular historical topic, and the like. Thanks to this forum I was able to contribute to the update of a scenario by a major designer. This is also a place to discuss history - about the only place on Apolyton where one can hold a serious discussion of history and civ, without interruption from the "go away history freaks" crowd. A function it could serve for both civ2 and civ3 simultaneously, quite easily.

So please dont take Sleague away.

LOTM

[MarkG]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ive come to this relatively late, but the distinction between Civ-2 creation and this forum have always been fairly clear to me. I am NOT an advanced scenario designer, and if i want tips on civ2 editing tools i go there. I come here for announcements of released scenarios, discussions of collaborative projects, requests for scens on a particular historical topic, and the like. Thanks to this forum I was able to contribute to the update of a scenario by a major designer. This is also a place to discuss history - about the only place on Apolyton where one can hold a serious discussion of history and civ, without interruption from the "go away history freaks" crowd. A function it could serve for both civ2 and civ3 simultaneously, quite easily.

ok, i understand all that. but why should the discussions you describe not be in the creation forums?
SL didnt adopt the ctp series and all these discussions were happening in the ctp1/2 creation forums as well

the reason is that up until now there was the updated SL site. without it, i'm afraid we're left with three forums(civ2-creation, civ3-creation, sl) with less traffic than if it were just two(civ2-creation, civ3-creation)

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Jay Bee What would you say if I told you that there are currently 4 (four!) scenarios in progress by the regulars of that forum?.

Depending on if you count me as a regular (atleast I used to be one before 80% of the threads where in spanish...) you could make that 5 scenarios

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Henrik
(atleast I used to be one before 80% of the threads where in spanish...)

Of course you are a regular of our forum Henrik, I did not know you were working on something I also "regret" the hyper-proliferation of Spanish-only threads in the forum. Ironically it is Civ3 that should be blamed for that. Since the day Civ3 was known not to include any Spanish/Hispanic civ, the number of Hispanic posters in the forum has increased pretty substantially. Go figure...


Back to the topic, I've just seen this:

ACS has its own section for scen DLing so thats not really a problem as I see it. Most of the SLeague site could be absorbed into ACS without loosing much. Just my 7¢™.

See what I was talking about? Of course it's not! Isn't it a bit revealing that one of the most frequent posters on this forum misses what the SL's mission statement actually was? The SL's was never ever meant to serve as a "Scenario DLing site". People started perceiving it that way when the flow of reviews and/or tips dramatically decreased. People started sending half-baked or brand-new (i.e. unknown) scens to the site. With that material it was difficult to maintain meaningful discussions on scenario design tricks. Then the mood changed completely: scenario previews, artwork displays, PBEMs... Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all that stuff as much as anyone here, but that is not what SL is (or was) about. Without a website backing up all those conversations, they definitely belong in a generic Creation forum.


LOTM: I agree with the distinction you make. But that only happened cos all the 'advanced scenario designers' moved from Civ2 Creation to the newly-created SL forum. What I mean to say is that w/o a SL forum, the 'advanced scenario designers' and everybody else would move back to where they started. Nothing would be lost in that respect.


Bottom line: why nobody steps in to help re-vive the SLeague? That's in essence what I was trying to accomplish with all these rants

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MarkG
ok, i understand all that. but why should the discussions you describe not be in the creation forums?
SL didnt adopt the ctp series and all these discussions were happening in the ctp1/2 creation forums as well

the reason is that up until now there was the updated SL site. without it, i'm afraid we're left with three forums(civ2-creation, civ3-creation, sl) with less traffic than if it were just two(civ2-creation, civ3-creation)

Hmmm - i pretty much agree that 3 forums - SL, Civ2 creation, and civ3 creation would be bit too much - but how busy do you expect Civ2 creation to be after civ3 comes out? The question is not to have more than two forums, but what is the most logical way to break down the subject matter. Historical discussions, and other more general discussions will naturally cover both civ2 and civ3. as regards to scenario creation tools, its not clear yet how distinctive the civ3 tools will be from civ2 tools. So why not a civ2/3 creation forum, and an sleague forum. Yes that violates the Civ-3 general, civ-2 general, civ3 strategy, civ2 strategy etc pattern - but that pattern looks pretty arbitrary for two such related games. My column for example, which you put in civ2 general (and i understand why you did that) was also relevant to civ3 general - where are we to discuss issues relating to the civ series as a whole?

LOTM

[Fiera]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
My column for example, which you put in civ2 general (and i understand why you did that) was also relevant to civ3 general - where are we to discuss issues relating to the civ series as a whole?

Ah, I can see Mark telling you that you should do so in the Community forum.

And, come to think of it, why not a Civ-Community forum?

[isaac brock]

Give it a few months and see what happens...

I don't, however, see the benefit in sending Civ 3 scenario-makers to this forum. It would be confusing for many who would look for it in the civ 3 section of the forums, rather than hosted sites. SLeague has its place, but not with the civ 3ers

[techumseh]

A few questions for Mark G:

There is a distinction between the SL site and the SL forum that you are not making. Why not?

The SL site, despite not having been updated for some months is still an excellent resource. Apparently there are technical reasons it cannot be updated by some people. Why not, and what are you doing about it?

Other sites, like Hodadian Awards and it's associated forum have been completely moribund for years, with no threat of closure. Why not?

We still don't know the creative potential of Civ3. Apparently we do know it won't have multiplayer capability. Why does this question need to be settled now?

[master on high]

Why don't we just get somebody to update the site then...?

IIRC, WV has had trouble getting into the FTP section or something like that.

[Shaka Naldur]

the civ2 creation forum would never had as much traffic as the SL forum.

the civ2 creation looks really cold, here I have the impression that we are a community,
I just check this forum and the Spanish one, for me it would be a pitty if you close this thread.

I´m with Jay Bee and Fiera, I´ll keep playing civ2 for a while

keep this forum alive!!!!!

[Shadowstrike]

IIRC, WV is on a laptop and can't get into the FTP. Or something like that. Though it would be great for us to elect someoe to run the site..... and save the forum.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
but how busy do you expect Civ2 creation to be after civ3 comes out?

actually, i expect it to have to be merged with the civ2-general eventually(similar to the situation in the ctp2 forums)

The question is not to have more than two forums, but what is the most logical way to break down the subject matter. Historical discussions, and other more general discussions will naturally cover both civ2 and civ3.

dont think so. usually someone start such a discussion with already an idea on which game he will make the scenario, right?

as regards to scenario creation tools, its not clear yet how distinctive the civ3 tools will be from civ2 tools.

with the add stuff about culture and unique units, etc i'm afraid it will end up a mess and will certainly have the civ2 threads dissapear in a flood of civ3 threads