2194 Game 2

[klesh]

STOP THE PRESSES!!!

Below is an excerpt form an email I just sent to Captain Nemo. He had emailed me asking a few questions, and as I answered I came upon an disturbing discovery! I begin by answering the question of why some Soviet units have no move points when the scenario kicks off...

quote: Hi Captain, Hmmmm..... I'll start with the issue of the units without movement cost. If you start up 2194 and play a single player game as the Soviets, you will notice the same thing. Many of your troops (especially in the East) do not have movement points on turn 1. This has ALWAYS been the case as far as I know. I assumed you were trying to simulate the Soviets' unpreparedness at the start of the war. But again, something peculiar here too. In that same single player game you just started, if you end the Soviets turn (turn1) they immediately get to move again in January '42 (turn2)! But after you end that turn, the Japanese get to move (which is correct as the standard order goes ie: Japan first, Soviets last) and then the Soviets get to make another turn, but it is then Feb 1942!!! Aparently Soviets are the only ones able to move in January 1942. This was not the case in the first round of PBEM. You can even see in the story thread that all players moved in January 1942. IIRC, the first time through the 2194 multiplayer, Xin told me that the Soviet didn't finish his turn (using Cntrl+N), but I tend to think now that it was actually the AI taking over for the entire new turn that the Soviet player missed, rather than just the AI moving the pieces with movement left in them (which is what will happen if the turn isn't ended properly). I don't really know why that is. Test it for yourself. All of the units that didn't have movement in turn 1 are back to normal in this New Free Turn the Soviets get. I guess you could've made an even bigger counter attack on Xin...[why am I telling you this!?! ] This has major ramifications in the multiplayer game though. I think we should maybe stop untill we can all talk and work these damn bugs out. But you are probably very busy with ****** ( edited so as not to reveal secret new scenario) so there is no time for a good ol' 2194 re-work. I dunno.

Boy,this has got me soooo

[Captain Nemo]

I think I was loading the game the wrong way, as a regular Civ2 game, which doesn't allow me to save it in the .net format. Now, if I start by selecting "Multiplayer Game", then pick "Load a Saved MultiPlayer Game" then I can save the game as a .net file (Actually that's now the only choice).
One BIG plus for me is that it lets me move all my units in the first turn.
The "new" results are devastating for the Germans. I captured not only Saratov, Moscow and Leningrad but also Minsk, Kiev, Rostov, Sevastopol and I am only half way through my turn! I caught several stacks of Nazi planes in those cities, killing them with tanks. German casualties are staggering, about 30 planes (Including a few disbanded) and 60 other units... I think I could capture Warsaw and reach the Berlin suburbs at the end of my turn!
I just need to know if I am doing anything wrong by loading the game that way?

[klesh]

I'm sorry to say that you are loading it correctly

[Xin Yu]

Well, I found Saratov won't be destroyed after sending out the game. The city would give the Soviet tanks another moving point to attack Moscow and Leningrad. Too late to fix the mistake.

Fortunately, I have a second line of defense west of Moscow, which limits my lost to only Moscow and Leningrad. I have also sold the anti-tanks for the two cities, hence my tanks can easily take the cities back, or destroy them. Plus, the Soviet does not have any air defense --no AAs, only 2 fighters (from Baku and Archangelsk) so my air raid will be devastating as well. Now Stalingrad won't be so heavily defended, which makes it easier for me.

Just hope that I haven't lost too many tanks and SS stormtroopers on the other front. I'm planning to take both the English islands and the Soviet big 3. If I don't have enough assaulting troops then I have to settle for a lower target.

[Captain Nemo]

Comrade Stalin reports that the Soviet people are engaged in a mighty struggle for survival. The sacrifices made have been so great that we can barely endure another month. We exhort our Allies to join the fight and open a Second Front behind the lines of the Nazi pigs to take the pressure off our struggling heroes on the East Front.
After the treacherous attack by the Nazi Army and their Japanese lackeys we were pushed back far into Siberia with tremendous losses. Our heroic Red Army regrouped and launched a counter-offensive from the Stalingrad salient exploiting a gap between 2 German Armies. We were able to capture Saratov and split the German Forces with our wedge of attacking tanks. We retook Moscow, pushed North to Leningrad and freed that town also.
Our Army group from Kharkov advanced Eastward annihilating the German defenders in Minsk. That city fell and caused some of the German aircover to disband after which the bulk of our forces in Stalingrad were able to destroy the adjacent German armies opening the direct railroad connection between Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad. We took the German railroad junction North of Saratov but it was destroyed in the process... Fortunately Engineers arriving by boat and rail from Archangelsk built a new junction and our tanks were able to freely move Eastward and take the German panzers from the rear annihilating the whole column and recapturing Sverdlovsk (Defended mostly by Me109s!) Our Northern forces svung South capturing Kalinin and Riga with heavy loss of German troops. Finally a massive push from Minsk allowed us to bring the war to Germany and capture Hamburg and the Peenemunde rocket complex! The high point was reached when our tanks entered the Naval Yards and destroyed the mighty battleship Tirpitz anchored there...
But this incredible effort has left our Army depleted and wounded... Let not our sacrifice be in vain! Forward Comrades! Invade! Attack!

Cities captured:
Saratov
Moscow
Minsk
Leningrad
Riga
Kalinin
Sverdlovsk
Hamburg
Railroad Junction

German losses from Soviet attack:
1 Engineer
8 Wehrmacht
3 Artillery
2 AA guns
12 SS troopers
26 Pzkw IV Panzers
5 Motorized Infantry
12 Me 109 Fighters
4 Bombers
1 Battleship
1 U-boat
5 Stukas
1 Fallschirmjaeger

Game sent to Field Marshal Klesh

[Captain Nemo]

I was wondering about the 2x move option in Multiplayer... I didn't use it but someone mentionned building Railroad in one turn?
After seeing all those Pzkw IVs East of Sverdlovsk it made me wonder if others used it?
This was the most thoughtful turn I have ever played in Civ2. Kind of tells me how Xin accomplishes those great results...

[Cal]

quote: Originally posted by Xin Yu on 02-01-2001 12:03 PM I figured it out. If the first (white) player has some units generated from events while others are playing, then the first player got the chance to move again by the end of the turn, thus the newly generated units get to move twice -- a huge advantage for the Soviet player since it can check status by the end of the current month and adjust its production and move his newly generated units to attack and retreat the second turn before anybody else can move.

It's the same way with Red Front. If any of your refugees are destroyed in Germany's first turn (which at least two usually are), you can move the partisans generated at the end, start retreating units early, and review production of all of your cities in June, a very useful bug.
Although... don't save your game during this time. If you do, when you load it back up and finally move the partisans, it'll be germany's turn to attack again!

[Shaka Naldur]

Xin Yu,

are you actually able to finish the scenario in four turns???

do you have any sav file around

I read once an strategy guide about red front?
don´t you have any other one?

[Xin Yu]

Shaka: I once destroyed the Soviet Union in 4 turns playing Germany in the old version of 2194 days (I think it is possible to do it in 3 turns). Of course I was playing against AI. The whole scenario cannot be finished that soon.

I don't have a saved file but I will write a strategy for the scenario pretty soon.

[Captain Nemo]

Xin Yu: The double moves you are talking about did not occur in my Multiplayer game: My first attempt, loading the game as a normal Civ2 game only allowed me to move 40% of my units, probably the newly generated ones plus some that had not been moved in December... Once I loaded the game as a multiplayer net game it played completely straight. Every unit moved unless it was in the process of fortifying or improving terrain and I forgot to deselect it early on. All units, even the ones created during the German offensive, only moved once. Of course, I used the event-generated units to the greatest extent possible and optimized my order of attack to get every possible event generated unit but that was all. The above results were not achieved with any units double-moving!

BTW did you use the Multiplayer double-move option in your first turn as your post about the railroad suggests? Without it I was able to move an engineer in along railroad, turn directly unto a river-square and build the city exactly where your was closing the gap in the railroad.

[Xin Yu]

Captain Nemo: Engineers work twice as fast in multiplayer setting. Which means that their moving points were not doubled but they could build roads twice as fast.

You must have played both December and January in your turn or you would not be able to get that far. You were suppose to start in January by the sequence of the game but the event-generated units gave you an extra turn. It will continue to give you extra turns until no units are generated from events.

[klesh]

This is wierd. Playing as the Japanese, my engineers will upgrade a road to railroad immeadialtely after pressing "r". However,this was not so when i played as the Germans. Xin, were your German engineers able to complete railbuilding in 1 turn?

[Xin Yu]

I figured it out. If the first (white) player has some units generated from events while others are playing, then the first player got the chance to move again by the end of the turn, thus the newly generated units get to move twice -- a huge advantage for the Soviet player since it can check status by the end of the current month and adjust its production and move his newly generated units to attack and retreat the second turn before anybody else can move.

If I can replay my turn I'll be able to modify my strategy and deal with it. For now let's just keep on playing to see if I can pull out of this.

[klesh]

Ahhhh, it was the river that threw me off. I got it now.

[Xin Yu]

I just got it. See below.
[This message has been edited by Xin Yu (edited February 02, 2001).]