Need opinions on new scenario

[C0ckney]

Now that Napoloen is finished, and Hundred years war 2.1 is almost finished I have decided to embark on a new project, namely Europe in 1400.

I have decided on 5 of the 7 civilisations

England
France
Spain (castile)
Holy Roman Empire
Ottoman Turks

now I have to make a decision on the other two, the choices are

Denmark
Poland (Southern and central Poland, western Ukraine, Moldova)
Hungry (Hungry, Romainia, south west Ukraine)
Eygpt (Eygpt, eastern Libya, Syria, Isreal, Jordon, Lebanon)
Papal states
Teutonic states (Northern Poland, Lithuainia, Latvia, estonia, Kalingrad (Russia))
Lithuainia (Belarus, Nothern Ukraine)
Aragon (would mean spliting Spain)
Portugal
Sweden
or an idependent civ covering many of these.


I would like your opinions on which two were most important to Europe in 1400 - c.1550?

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Windows 98 (windoze) a 32 bit extention of a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system, origalanly coded for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company who can't stand one bit of competition!

[MagyarCrusader]

"Hungry"

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"There is no more illustrious history than the history of the Magyar Nation... The whole civilized world is indebted to Magyarland for its historic deeds."
-Theodore Roosevelt, to the Hungarian Parliament,
April 2, 1910

[Helios]

In 1400 Lithuania and Poland were a single large (and very powerful) nation. I would definitely include it. (I don't know if it was called Poland or Lithuania, since it was a union of both, with neither dominating.)

What additional civs you pick depend on where you want the focus of the scenario to be. With only 7 civs, you cannot possibly include all the major interactions of that time period. Do you want the focus to be the interactions among the west European powers? Or the growth of the Hapsburg empire through marriage and conquest? Or the growth of the Ottoman Empire? Or the conflicts in Eastern Europe? Or Scandinvia? Or Northern Italy? Or maybe the major economic powers: Venice, Genoa, Pisa, the Hanseatic League, Flanders, the Medicis, the Fuggers.

You have to choose. The possibilities are endless.

[SunTzu]

Portugal obviously, they were a big part in world exploration in that time period. Chris Columbus and most european explorers were Portugal in blood and living in another country,and saild for that coutry, or sailed for Portugal.
Portugal and Hungary would be my choices. I forgot if u had the russians or not, but they were also rising to power and a powerful nation during this time.
What about Sweden? They were a powerful country themselves at one point. I don't remember if it was during this time period of yours, but they were defeating russia and another country in a war but lost after awhile.

[BeBMan]

Sounds interesting. Hmm, I wouldn´t include the Teutonic states, their golden ages was over around 1400 (Tannenberg 1410), Poland seems better if the scn will cover only europe.
Portugal is a must if your map include oversea territories. The Ottomans can be Barbarians...

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Civ2000

[Prometeus]

Poland for sure, COckney... maybe walking in your shoes I put in Portugal also.

PS If you need help, i have a lot of 1400's pics...

[C0ckney]

Thanks everyone for your opinions.

Helios,

Are you sure about Poland and Lithuainia?, my map says that they were two different states. (However is it a French map and has Part of Wales as independent in 1400!)

I am not yet sure what the focus of the scenario will be, however I do know that the Ottomans can't be barbarians, they were vital in shaping the history of Europe at this time.

Bebro, Suntzu,

The scenario covers Europe only (anything else might require making a map!)

Prom,

Thanks, I need all the help I can get

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Windows 98 (windoze) a 32 bit extention of a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system, origalanly coded for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company who can't stand one bit of competition!

[Stefan Härtel]

Wales was in revolt during this time. Lithunia and Poland were two states. My suggestion would be:
Sweden, which was then a transcandinavian state, consisting of sweden, Norway and Denmark (from 1397-1412) and Hungary. But you should somehow have the papal ghost floating around.

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It was still mighty after the first one, still inhabitable
after the second one;
It could not be found after the third one.
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[C0ckney]

Thanks stefen,

I think I'll put the Papal staes (central italy) under Holy Roman Empire control, I'll give sicily to spain and maybe southern Italy (kingdom of naples) as well, I think I will include Hungry as a rampart to protect against the Ottomans, and also to threatern Germany.

However I'm still undecided between Poland (I would probably unite them with Lithuainia) and Sweden.

Thanks everyone for your help so far

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Windows 98 (windoze) a 32 bit extention of a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system, origalanly coded for a 4 bit processor by a 2 bit company who can't stand one bit of competition!

[BeBMan]

Nice sites, Prometeus

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Civ2000

[Helios]

in 1386 Poland and Lithuania formed a union. I'm not sure how long this union lasted, but I would assume that it lasted well after 1400. Their combined territory was huge. I know I've bookmarked a few maps of this time period, if I find them I'll post links.

[Squonk]

Poland and Lithuania were 1 country, so one off
your list. The union lasted up to the third partage in 1795.

[St Leo]

1. Although initially hesitant, Lithuania finally jumped into the union after being defeated in 1399 by the Golden Horde.

2. I recommend using these partly inaccurate civs:

Spain (Spain, Aragon, Sicily, Naples, Austria)
Poland (Poland, Lithuania, Moldavia)
France (France, Genoa)
England (England, Ireland, Acquitaine)
Union of Kalmar (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Shetlands, Iceland)
Ottomans
Neutrals (Portugal, Navarre, HRE, Venice, Teutonic Knights, Mamlukes, Hungary, Russia)
Barbarians (Burgundy, Bohemia, Granada, Marinids, Hafsids, Scotland, Golden Horde, Empire of Timur, and Serbia)

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Prometeus]

I collected a lot of material from this sites, COckney; i think these will help you a lot...
www.elisena.com
www.aitnamodel.com

If you need it i found a XV century "yeniceri" pic on another site, just tell and i'll send it to you.
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited October 15, 2000).]

[Helios]

I agree with that, except that I would add to the Neutrals the remnants of the Byzantine Empire, ie Constantinople, Trebizond, Epirus, and the southern Peleponessus (sp?). Additionally, I believe that some of the Latin holdings left in the Balkans belonged to Aragon at this point, and could thus belong to Spain.


The only other powers not well represented in that scheme are Burgundy, which controlled Flanders, the Franche Comte in the HRE, and the Burgundy region of France; and the Luxembourg dunasty, which controlled Luxembourg, Bohemia, the Lusatia and Brandenburg regions, as well as other parts of the northern HRE, and was at this point a chief rival of the Hapsburg family.

Other than that, St. Leo's scheme seems about right.


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-Helios