Lord of the Rings V4: Event.txt

[Sieve Too]

Xin Yu, you are right about Dromund having m=5, same as Galleys. However, I'm having some doubts on using Longboats to detect the Dromund. They tend to come at you towards Belfalas from either the S/SE or SW or towards Dol Amorth from the SW. I'm not sure 2 Longboats are enough. Every Longboat you build means one less vet Galley to counter-attack with. I'm finding that I can't get enough Galleys.

Similarly, since Harad begins to threaten barely 4 or 5 turns into the scenario, I'm finding it hard to produce the Longboats needed to ship-chain Hobbits down to the South.

Eagles protecting The Carrock: When over water, they don't generate ZOC. I watched a Wolves unit walk right by it to attack. Too bad The Carrock can't produce Galleys. It would be easy to protect then.

North and South Dunlan(sp?): I usually send the Ents to kill all the defenders (some pick up vet status) and then rush a Dunedain from Sarn Ford down to walk into the cities. This gives Gandalf some time to kill a few Nazgul up north and recover before coming south to attack Isengard with the Ents.

Dwarves: It's hard to build 4 Dwarves (which is the minimum you need to finish a fortress in one turn) since Iron Hills is frequently under attack. The city shrinks too much and the food shortage is hard to deal with. Any non-air unit I try to get to or from the Iron Hills (like a Settler) gets crunched.

And I think it's worth saying again: This is one fantasic scenario! Too bad I can't find a way to win it...

[Xin Yu]

Sieve Too: I have played 4 turns into the game and it is going on very well. Please try it again when you have time. The following tips may help:

For clearity let's number the Nazguls from northwest to southeast #1-#8.
#1 and #2 Nazgul (north to hobbiton): Use 'Nazgul trap's I got them crashed by turn 2 and turn 4. However there were a couple of wolves coming from the north when trapping the second nazgul. Got to kill them to protect the trap. The spy bird can give you information so it's doable. Even if you can't trap them, you can move the Rangers to Hobbiton and rotate them so the Nazguls will be attracted forever. Rush build a settler and build a fortress on the hills squares west and north of Hobbiton and put a vet Dunedain in each fortress (later add a hobbit); move a vet elven to Bree. After this setup you don't need to worry about North.
#3 and # 4 Nazgul: Turn 1, move Radagast to Eagle's Eyrie, and move gandalf to the river square two squares southwest of the Nazgul city (which is North to Rivendell). Second turn, use gandalf to kill the orcs on the hills two squares west of Eagle's Eyrie, thus punch a hole to the orcs wall and Radagast will take gandalf's position. Now two Nazgals will be attracted by Radagast. Third turn Gandalf return to rivendell and Radagast move two squares northwest -- the two Nazguls will pursue and end up in a plain square. Turn 4 use Gandalf to attack, he will die and reborn a vet, this time attack again and kill the two Nazguls.
#5 Nazgul: this one will crash on turn 1(kill one elven unit) if you move 5 units from Rivendell along the river to form a Nazgul trap. Position Gomli next to the Nazgul (on the right), then a vet elven NE to Gomli, then a non-vet elven NW to the first elven, then Boromir NE to the second elven, then Legolas NW to Boromir.
Other Nazguls and the Witch King: Have your Southern cities heavily fortified (20 units in Minas Tirith), so #8 Nazgul and the Witch King will give up there and move towards the Elven city. Move Aragorn and Gomli through the place Gandalf had opened to Eagle's Eyrie. Also move Gollum there. Meanwhile try to get Aragorn to vet. Then protected by Gollum Aragorn will move to a Mountain square 3 squares away from Moria and attract all Nazguls and the Witch King. The Witch King will try to attack Aragorn and get killed. Now quickly have Aragorn repaired by the ally (move it to the Elven city) and move back to a mountain square. The Witch King will appear again and get suicide against Aragon. Gomli can protect Eagle's Eyrie without any problem and you can free the eagles to protect the Carrock.
A settler and a dwarf will ming Dale to forest. Afterwards the dwarf can protect the city. Iron Hills will be protected by a dwarf as well. Eagle King will move to Dale and protect both Dale and Iron Hills whenever there's a problem. Disband other units to build Dunedains to protect Esog.
3 dwarves are enough to build a fortress on a river in one turn and hold on to it (4 if on river+forest). On turn 1 use your non-vet dwarf to attack. If he won with some moving points left (you are lucky!), let him start building fortress then click on him (so the next turn he won't get stucked). Then use your vet dwarf to move 5 squares to South and start building a fortress (again click on him before the end of the turn). The next turn move both of them to the forest river square and build fortress, it will be finished due to their pre-work. Move your rush-built dwarf there to hold the line. If your first dwarf did not win with moving points left then you could only settle with a river square. Every turn after there will be 3-4 Rhun units attack you but you'll be Ok. When your dwarfs fully recovered, move them forward. You still have one dwarf to protect Iron Hills.
Harad Drumond have move 6 (it has the lighthouse)! Must use a spy bird. I was able to finish setup by turn 4 for moving units south. (Rush built 2 longboats every turn. Built two cities on the Southern fork to let the longboats through, used my knight to kill a wolf there). Turn 5 Legolas and Boromir will be in Belfalas! Before that my tactic was to send my ships out to meet the Drumonds rather than waiting at ports. This will slow the enemy down and keep them at bay. (I built a shipyard in Belfalas so I can build 3 vet Galleys each turn.) One interesting finding: the Drumonds won't attack my longboats if I don't sentry them and they are empty. I can very well use longboats to further delay the enemy. (This also means that the naval convoys will be totally safe.)
I plan to move Gandalf and Radagast to South to get rid of the Harad ships and protect my landing on Harad. The two can also protect Frodo and the Ring to get close to Barad-dur.
However the new city built to get units south was too close to Isengard and I'm afraid that I could not hold it. I'll try your tactic (use Ents to attack an Isengard city and occupy it with a Dunedain) to see if the Isengards will be attracted there rather than bothering my transport city.

[Harlan]

Xin Yu,
What's all this griping about the scenario being so difficult- looks like you have it well under control now. When I made it I was bummed the way Frodo and the Ring worked, in that they could only go so fast. Now, I'm glad, cos at least you can't speed up their getting to Mt. Doom- or can you?

[Xin Yu]

Nope, unless you change your mind and let me use the diplomacy trick.
I don't see any usage of diplomatic contacts, so why not just ban them altogether?

Just played through turn 6.
All enemy attacks were foiled. Except that, I gave up the city northeast of Hobbiton (I managed to sell all city improvements before it's fall). Hopefully that town can buy me enough time for setting up defense of Hobbiton.
Ents city almost got bribed (I was very very lucky that I tried to change an Ents' position and bumped into Wormtongue). I think next time I'll move a Eagle there to patrol the place. I'll let the Eagle leave Eagle's Eyrie at turn 2 when the two Nazguls at Moria are out of town. The Eagle can then occupy South Dunlan after it is emptied by Ents bombardment.
Harad ships are stopped. Balfalas has Pippin, Legolas, Boromir and a Hobbit. Also several Galleys are waiting. Two other cities also have Hobbits. Radagast is on his way there and Gandalf is resting in Ravendell (he killed two Nazguls with a tiny little blood left).

[Xin Yu]

Since my strategy went on very well I now turn to Deity Level. It is a lot tougher since the AI cheats like hell. Each turn all AI shield boxes are filled automatically. I guess they just purchased them with a low low price of one gold per shield (plus 20% discount since AI only needs 80% of the shield to build a unit). The evil civs have 50+ cities combined, so each turn 50 units are going to be produced. By the time I occupy Barad-dur, 1,000 will be produced!

Can't let that happen, so I'm going to go offensive early in the game. Gandalf and Legolas will attack northern Mordor cities after the Nazguls are gone. Merry and Pippin will also go offensive once they become vets. My largest offensive force -- Radagast, the Eagles, and dwarfs will eliminate the Rhun. Faramir will use amphibious attack to eliminate the two Mordor coastal cities. Really need some luck in this.

[Lul Thyme]

N\T

[Lul Thyme]

Ok sorry for the previous message, I was havgin trouble posting. OK first before I say anything else here is a copy of an email I sent to Harlan and his response before I even read anything on this forum. I will comment it and the forums afterwards
On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Gabriel Verret wrote:

> Hi,
> I played your Lord of the Rings scenario for Civ 2 since version 2 but
> played mostly version 3. When I learned you had made a new version I was
> very happy to see you were still working on it. While playing I noted down
> everything I thought might be useful some of it is criticism but only
> constructive. Some are hints or strategies I find relevant and some is just
> comments. Since this is my first e-mail to you some of the things are
> relevant to older versions as well.
> (In no particular order)
> 1.Shelob : she looks great but I never saw her in my game. Afterwards, I
> tried to cheat but I didn't see her anywhere and saw no reference to her in
> the events...
> 2.Now the new power of Sauron, The Balrog and Elrond (not sure about
> Galadriel) to come out and attack a few squares from their town. I suspect
> you did this purely on practical grounds because in the books those units
> never even left their respective homes. But I found it to be a nuisance. The
> Balrog killed himself early by flying against some fortified pikemen. Elrond
> died likewise. When Frodo arrived in Minas Morgul (conquered) with The Ring,
> Aragorn accompanied him and they fortified themselves in Mount Doom waiting
> for the final attack. Sauron may be strong but there's not much even he can
> do against the King of Gondor veteran fortified in a fortress on Mount Doom.
> I don't know about Galadriel but this is the first game I ever saw die so I
> must guess she too using her newfound power to attack decided to commit
> suicide. I strongly suggest at least The Balrog and her stay in their city.
> Elrond and Sauron should too.
> 3.Orcs. Orcs again. I believe raising the defense of defensive orcs from 2
> to 3 was the most important change in version 4. It's main influence is that
> now mountains can't be attacked except by a few select units like Aragorn or
> Gandalf. Even minor heroes like Gimli don't stand much of a chance. That
> means that the way East of Rivendell for example can never really be used
> until the fall of Barad-Dur whereas in the version 3 u could slowly get rid
> of all the pesky orcs by attacking them with Gimli, Legolas and Boromir and
> healing after every attack. Same goes with cities. Trollshaws, Ninglor and
> Goblin Town, which would fall to a coordinated attack in version 3 now
> require at least Gandalf and 2 other heroes to be taken. This brings me to
> point 4
> 4.Dunedains, which are the main producible shock for Gondor are not almost
> cannon fodder. In version 3, veteran Rangers could take on most units on
> clear terrain even orcs within city walls on clear terrain and orcs on
> almost all terrain. While they couldn't be relied on for any sturdier target
> they did the small jobs while heroes took on the big fortresses, the
> Olog-Hais and other such minions. Now they have no way attacking any city
> even if filled with orcs even orcs on rivers and such pose problems. And
> we're not talking about knights or catapults but the best unit Gondor can
> produce. This is made more livable by the plethora of new heroes :
> Treebeard, The New Gollum, The Lord of Eagles, Theoden and Merry and Pippin
> , who are amongst the best units. (In my game Merry resisted the onslaught
> of two Nazguls in Osgiliath). The result is that the scenario has become
> much more of a heroes game, where most battles can't be won without a fair
> amount of heroes.
> 5.Harad is strong. Maybe too strong. At the end of the scenario when all the
> Northern Mordor cities had fallen most of Mordor itself and the Easterlings
> had only 2 cities left (which they would have lost the scenario being one
> turn longer), Harad hadn't lost a SINGLE city, and while Pelargir and other
> southern cities had been safe, Harad still had a stranghold of Mumakils
> which I was unable to dislodge. I must admit to not sending even one hero
> down there and as I said in my previous point, major battles need heroes.
> Let's just compare with Easterlings for example. The Haradrim is comparable
> to the Easterling in that it is very mobile, very good on attack and defense
> (an elite unit) and they both make zounds of them. They can be stopped by
> dunedains in walled city if river or other terrain and can be killed by one
> or 2 vet dunedains on clear terrain or light terrain. The differences lies
> in the fact that behind their easterlings, Rhun has puny (I would say
> laughable if they weren't my main line of defense) archers and pikeman while
> Harad has the all-powerful mumakils (a bit too powerful in my opinion) and
> ships patrolling the seas and hitting anything on the coast while making the
> occasional raid on a port city.
> 6.I like most graphic changes to the units except for the Uruk-Hai which
> resembles the Orc too much. I know of course that Uruk-Hais ARE orcs but I
> still like their graphics to be dissimilar.
> 7.The ranger units are said to come back when KILLED but in fact only do so
> when they are defenders. I learned this the hard way while launching
> kamikaze raids against Fornost with no hope of coming back because of fuel
> (I figured this was a good idea because they weren't doing much right now
> and would com back anyway). I think you should either change this in the
> events, if it can be done, or change the text in the readme.
> 8.As I said earlier I conquered all Mordor city out of Mordor. All rhun but
> the 2 furthest city. Ninglor was destroyed. And I took Osgiliath Minas
> Morgul, Ithilien, Poros, Barad-dur and 2 or 3 more cities in Mordor. I
> barely got a stalemate. And if I retired on first turn with my original
> cities I'd get a decisive defeat. This occurred in earlier version too and
> I'm pretty sure it has to do with Wonder cities. Moria, during the game is
> not listed as a objective when I click on it. I could check if you want if
> that really is the problem but I got a hint you were aware of this.
> 9.This one has to do about the AI cheating about invisible units. I tried a
> few times to send Frodo with The Ring and do it the Stealthy way but it
> seems Nazgul were always going to places they had nothing to do but kill
> Frodo. Even once I was rid of the Nazguls, units always seem to carelessly
> go in mountains and kill Frodo even though there were on a road. I am aware
> this is not your fault but it makes might the only way to bring The Ring to
> Barad-Dur. Gondor must take Osgiliath and Minas Morgul (Minas Morgul
> couldn't resist to the assaults of Aragorn, Faramir, Eowyn and Eomer and all
> the hobbits although Eomer was killed by the last of the Nazguls.) and then
> send a force to mount doom. (In my case Aragorn, Frodo and The Ring was
> sufficient, Sauron killed himself by attacking the King of Gondor, Heir of
> Isildur who had cut the Ring from his finger.)
> 10.Another important cheat is the amount of fuel. Again I know you are aware
> but my personnel experience was this. When the Ents started attacking
> Isengard and Aragorn had conquered Dunland and was coming to finish the job,
> Saruman hung there by his city for a few turns. He stayed there for a total
> of maybe 8 turns even after Isengard had fallen and finally left for his
> island in the city. Nazguls sometimes stayed afloat for an extra turn too
> although it never got as bad as in Saruman's case and they never actually
> attacked again, they just stayed there.
> 11.Those islands were a very good idea in my opinion to prevent those pesky
> civilizations from popping up.
> 12.I never figured out why the Casualties screen is not empty from the start
> and Gondor has such casualties has The Balrog from the start. It doesn't
> affect gameplay of course but it wreaks the whole point of the screen.
> 13.Even if for a few reasons it is harder than in the previous versions, I
> really think you should make an effort to produce the equivalent of the
> Isengard scenario from version 3. I had lots of fun conquering Rohan and
> Gondor with Saruman's Uruk-Hais.
> 14.Now I know bribing was very much of a problem in version 3 (I once bribed
> Osgiliath for a few hundred coins and got 2 Nazguls, 3 Olog Hais a few
> trolls and hordes of lesser creatures and minions who from then on fought
> side by side with Aragorn) and it has been fixed. But to my dismay, even
> though they were listed in the readme, I was never able to build spies, even
> though I had writing. Maybe you know the reason for this, I didn't do much
> research but if you don't have a clue tell me and I can try to find some
> answers.
> 15.Similar to this, after the fall of Barad-Dur, the option to build pikemen
> and archers disappeared. I guess this has to do with them being obsolete
> with the new techs. Maybe you are aware of this and it was wanted but I
> found it very disturbing.
> 16.The readme states that the military civilopedia won't mention the unique
> units. This is one mistake I'm happy you made. I like having all the units
> in the civilopedia as opposed to the Dagor scenario, where all unique units
> are omitted. Anyway you should either changer the readme (best choice IMHO)
> or the civilopedia.
> 17.The change to the Ents was a good idea and well-implemented although I
> would make them stronger. Since they is almost no chance of them doing
> anything but attacking Isengard which will fall anyway it won't disturb the
> game that much.
> 18.Gollum's change is a bit weirder. In my game all he did was stand over
> units and protect them from non fighter-units. Is that really what he was
> intended for?
> 19.Obviously this game is going to vary lot from the books but the one
> consistent thing I did in all my games which varied a lot was to take
> Aragorn and the hobbits with the ring, use them to conquer dunland and
> Isengard and go on to Gondor. This has the advantage of taking Isengard
> easily (Isengard is very hard to take otherwise) and is an easier route than
> going to Rivendell (easy up to now) and crossing the mountains and going
> down. The southern route has a road and is very easy to cross while the
> northern route is easy to Rivendell but the mountains are hard to cross
> (even more since the orc's defense has been upgraded) and is victim of
> Nazgul attacks until close to Entwood. I am aware that this is almost
> impossible to address without drastic changes to the scenario so this is not
> criticism as such. I'd rather know if that's the way everybody does it
> including you, and if not how exactly do they use Aragorn and the hobbits.
> This is it, I guess 19 is enough for now. I'm thinking of trying Reynold's
> Dagor soon and making such comments. I definitely think you should have a
> site for your scenario, amybe not as extensive as Brian's but at least have
> the latest version, your e-mail, a message room for comments, and a small
> getting started guide.
> I expect full and honest comments on this and expect a new version soon
> Lul Thyme
Hi,
Thanks for your comments. I'm afraid I'm no longer into Civ2 much, and am
pretty burned out on this scenario. So I can't match your length in
comments here. However, this scenario has been the focus on some
discussion lately at the Apolyton web site, and you might find answers to
some of your issues there. Check out: http://civilzation.gamestats.net,
and then go to the forums page. Check out the Scenario League forum, and
the thread called Lord of the Rings V.4. Looking at it right now, the
last post was on June 27.

Folks there have come up with some very clever strategies. Such things
as crossing the Misty Mountains are no problem at all for those
guys. Unfortunately, there are some bugs in the game, such as Shelob not
being there. Not having Spies was another, but frankly now I'm happy its
like that, as I dislike any unit or city buying.

I have no plans in fixing the bugs with an updated version, but if you
want to do so, please be my guest (if you okay changes with me first). I
admit it could use some fixing, but I just don't have the time. Someone
else already did much of the work but never finished it, perhaps that
could be finished off.

Harlan

[Lul Thyme]

Ok first some comments about his reply: I'm sorry he's burned with civ 2 and as such doesn't plan to make a new version of this scenario. He directed me to this forum and I've read all replies with great interest. There are still many bugs in the sce a lot of which could be easily adressed and increase gameplay a lot. I have decided to be his guest as he says and do it myself. As such I would be very happy to know what person he refers too did most of the work. I will also list all changes I do here and ask about further suggestions or ideas. I have never done any scenarios but I know civ 2 extensively but I'll still need help for the harder parts and maybe for playtesting. Any interested post here would be best or e-mail me at lul_thyme@hotmail.com (forgot the email I gave to apolyton that was jsut for registering).

[Lul Thyme]

Ok now I'll comment my own text in the e-mail (I've changed my mind about a few things since June). Note I don't plan actually changing anything in the scenario until a few weeks from now, I'm just jotting down ideas and comments from you guys.
1.Shelob I'll put her in the game. Any of you have ideas any specific way I should? (what should trigger her appearing)
2.Except if you guys are all against it's almost sure I will take out the movement of units like The Balrog and Galadriel maybe even Elrond and Sauron
3.I will leave the orcs with toughness 3, it changes the whole strategy but overall it is tougher on the player and I'm fine with this.
4.I am thinking about maybe making one or two of the Gondor units stronger but this is far from certain and will only be done by a slight marge and very carefully. Need lots of comments on this one.
5.I think it would be possible to make Harad less strong but counter with stronger Rhun. Any comments. Far from necessary, could be left as such.
6.Anybody like me like it better in ver 3 when the Uruk-Hais didnt look like Orcs that picked up a different weapon?
7.The rangers will have to be tweaked that's for sure. It seems to be Harlan put them in very quickly without much playtesting.
8.I'm pretty the way objectives work is messed up. I'll try to correct it.
9.Nothing to be done here it's the way civ 2 works.
10.Same here
11.(any particular thoughts about the offshore islands)
12.any thoughts here I think I know why it is like that but any idea how to change it?
13.I still think this can be done although I won't try till I'm done with the main sce.
14.My idea here is to take out all spies diplomat and talking beetween civs altogether. It will take out many bugs. The war with Isengard could be triggered. need comments.
15.As previously mentionned in this forum the give tech is almsot certainly messed up.
16.comments?
17.I read here about differents strategies with the Ents. I'd like comments.
18.Need playtester's comments. With diplomacy out Gollum's new role is fine i guess.
19.Ok let me say here i ca win this scenario 90 % of the time and I;ve never use (I admit I didn't think of them) diplomacy tricks to teleport units or giving tech tricks, nazgul traps (except if u consider fortifying units and them attacking them a "trap")or longboat chains. The scenario is still a challenge though and it can be very fun to see just how much territory you can take before the end of the sce. I'll comment a few more things later.

[Lul Thyme]

OK new comments: first to stop Elrond, Sauron, Galadriel and The Balrog from moving would be good in terms of gameplay and would be truer to the book. Taking diplomacy out would leave two new spots : Wormtongue and diplomat any new unit ideas? (gameplay related if possible, by that i mean units that would either prevent a bug or allow something cool).
I've checked and the incorrect number of objective points is due to important cities not working, all cities are worth one.
Last, anyone know where and how we could host a site for this sce like Brian Reynolds did for his Dagor Bracollah? (or whatever the name)

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[Xin Yu]

Wow, that's a lot of work and posts.

Question: what version did you play? 4.0 or 4.1? In my version Aragorn always lost to Sauron and Bolrog was very strong (I play at deity level). Also the 6 island cities on the lower left corner are gone.

What is your definition for victory? Occupy all Mordor, Rudan, and Harad cities before turn 43?

If you play V4.1 on deity or emperor level and can eliminate the three evil civs before the 3rd age 90% of the time, then you deserve my highest respect. Could you post your strategy here?

[Harlan]

Lul,
Glad to see you want to take up my challenge. Send me an email to harlant@earthlink.net to remind me (I'm not at home), and I'll send you the name of the person who worked on this already, and the latest files he made. He made a number of good fixes, including, if I recall correctly, some reworking of the tech tree to prevent wierd outcomes, like the Elven tech falling into the wrong hands.

I also applaud getting rid of spying units. To fill one of the slots: instead of having immobile Orcs all over the mountain ranges to prevent their easy crossing, make an immobile mountain unit. I made the scenario so long ago that I wasn't even aware of the unit-as-terrain idea yet. Check out the immobile mountain unit concept in other scenarios, such as my Mongols scenario. They're actually air units with unbeatable statistics (esp. as they'd be on mountains). Gondor units that can attack air would know not to, the only problem with them is that Saruman would no longer be able to attack air units or he could kill himself against them (assuming they're Mordor units).

By adding them all along mountain ranges such as the Misty Mountains and the mountains around Mordor, you'd make the game even harder (ha ha!) and better. Now units can only cross through select points of your choosing. Some of those passes could be blocked by one or more immobile Orcs, for instance the road east from Rivendell over the Misty Mts (but the immobile mountains would allow you to get rid of most immobile Orcs). This would force the player to follow the book story line even more, for instance it would be harder to avoid Shelob now. Another pass could force you to tangle with the Balrog (not the only way over, but there'd be less ways to avoid it).

And please, foil Xin Yu's strategies, like the longboat chain and teleportation! Graphics have also improved greatly since the day- maybe people could come up with some better unit pics for instance by pillaging other scenarios and unit collections. Some of them from LotR are a bit embarrassing these days.

[Lul Thyme]

From what you say it must be 4.0 (I had islands) I jsut got 4.1 but havn't tried it yet. Anybody has the list of changes? I'll playtest it and get back to you on this. Well in my version Aragorn Veteran fortified on fortress on mount doom killed Sauron without getting yellow.... just do the math and it's normal (def 6, 9 for vet, 13.5 for fortified, 27 for fortress, 81 for mount doom, 192 because Sauron flies.) Aragorn has 192 def 5hps 3 fp Sauron has attack 30 (45 if vet) 7hps 5 fp... Who would you bet on? Well on Deity I usually take all of Mordor cities except one or two and all of Rhuns and maybe 4 cities of Harad before time ends. So no this is not your victory definition but don't forget as I said i use no Nazgul traps, no longboat chains or no diplomacy trick.
to Harlan : wouldn't it be easier if we tried to do like in Brian's Dagor (someone send me the proper name i keep forgetting) use railroad over ocean squares?? Or would longboats over mountains just seem out of place? It would prevent Saruman and Gandalf from attacking them.... Tell me what you think.

[Lul Thyme]

I play Mge
I think you're right about flying units i think defending units lose the fortification bonus. I would have to test about fortify. It makes the battle much closer. But Aragorn still won easily in my game. Do you have comments on anything else? I have an e-mail from Harlan with the list of the changes someone else did to the sce although I don't know if it would be possible to get that version.

------------------
"But no living man am I."-Eowyn
Many have become chess masters -- no one has become themaster of chess. -Siegbert Tarrasch
The meaning of victory is not to defeat your enemy but to destroy him,to eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his every achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can recover. That is the meaning of victory. Lord Commander Solar Macharius

[Harlan]

Lul,
It is very possible to get that updated version- I sent it to you as an attachment to the email you speak of. So if you were able to read that, you should have the attachment to download as well. I sent you two more emails that have the sound files as well.

Xin,
You're good at pointing out shortcuts to winning the game- but can you use your power of evil for good? What I mean is, now that you've exposed these things, suggest ways to fix them?

Is there a conversion program working these days that converts from MGE to FW? I'd hate to see Lul make a better version of this game, only to find that people with only FW can't play it.