"Of Celts and Iberians" Now Available for Download

[Sable]

A bit later than originally planned, but "Of Celts and Iberians -- Conquest of the Silver Country" is finally available for download. Check it out at the Spanish Civilization Site

Send flames, constructive criticisms and, best of all, saved games to [e-mail]spanish@apolyton.net[/e-mail]


My deep gratitude to Rob Roy, Cam Hills and Stefan Härtel for sharing their wisdom with me.

[blackclove]

This is a very good scenario... I got hooked yesterday afternoon while waiting for Lili to finish up her work. It ended up taking her longer than she planned, and I ended up playing a LOT longer than I'd planned.

Sure hope I manage to finish that dissertation thing...

[Paul Hanson]

One problem with it; the Carthaginians are TOO powerful. It`s nigh on impossible to expel them from Spain by 197BC, as historically happened according to the readme. Otherwise, it`s of the typical high standard that we expect from you, Jesus.

[Sable]

Thanks Paul

One of the things I last changed from the playtesting versions to the final one was an event that made the Carthaginians disappear if the Romans took over Gades. I finally left that event out for two reasons:

a) To make the things way more difficult for the Romans (human player) in the South. If the Romans take easily over Turdetania the game is over. Keeping the Carthsginians in I ensured that would not happen (at least not easily).

b) As a sort of what if? The reasons why the Carthaginians lost the Second Punic War are not totally understood even today. They were so close to crush the Romans! Surprisingly, the AI-controlled Carthaginians do it pretty well in the scenario (at least during my own playtesting). So I let them do as a sort of "historical revenge". Hint: when attacking the Carthaginians, open two fronts. That simplifies the things a lot.

[C0ckney]

A few little things I have noticed when playing the Romans:

1) It is best to concentrate on costal cities because of your good navy and because some of the Inland cities in northern Spain are a real bugger to take, so dont waste time on them. Move your army from the north to surport the attack on the carthaginians (sp?) if you are quick this can be done by 200BC.
2) When the carthaginians have being destroyed (or weakend so they no longer pose a threat) you can concentrate on conquring the rest of the country.

3) when doing this start with the ebro valley where there are some large easy to take cities which can provied vital production (if you can stop partisans from ravaging the area around the city)

4) Use captured celts and Iberians to attack cities first as they do better than the Roman troops for some reason (they may ignore city walls, but I havent checked)

BTW great scenario, well balanced and fun to play.
I wish that there were more sites like the Spanish civ2 site for other countries like Britain, France or mabey more obscure countries like Hungry and Poland (no offence to the inhabitants of these countries )

Well thats my 2 cents
Hope it helps anyone who is having difficulty with this great scenario

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Cockney used to be schizophereic but we'er ok now

[blackclove]

It also seems that becoming a democracy has a point, as the envoy unit is a real major pain once the Carthaginians start building them. I lost my entire army in southern Spain to envoys who bribed all six of the major cities that I captured there. They must be spending thousands of gold per turn bribing my units and cities... eventually they started shipping them in BY BOAT to attack my rear.

[Prometeus]

There's a reason for everything in the world ...
Hannibal ( and Carthaginians )loosed the second punic war because he wasn't able to mantain an enduring alliance against Rome.
Celts, rebel Italic cities ( like Capua ) or Macedonian king Philip V weren't such good allies as loyal Italic were from Rome instead. If you add logistic problem ( FIDES PUNICA was legend amongst Romans - in order to supply his own army, Hannibal had to ravage the whole Southern Italy, with ovious results ... ), Scipio's family strategic intuitions ( they understood very well the value of Carthaginian Spain ), the first Punic war peace treatry terms ( including the drammatic decrease of the Punic fleet ships ), and - the most important point - the newest legionary tactics and weaponry ( "quincunce" disposition, iberic gladius, the side attack formation used at the battles of Baecula, Ilipa, Campi Magni and - in a little more different way - Zama ), you can easy find the answer.

P.S. OOOPS, i forgot : how can i stop Carthaginian's FIDES PUNICA tendences to bribe everything on their pats ?
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 17, 2000).]

[Paul Hanson]

That happened to me as well Blackclove; I took it slowly, built up a reasonable power base in Northern Spain, and took Carthago Nova when my army landed there. When the Carthaginians got envoys, they bribed back all their cities (despite losing all their money when Carthago Nova is taken, they had got about 12000 gold 20 turns later). When I took Saguntum, the Carthaginians bribed it back; They took Dertosa by bribing and sent ships full of diplo`s up to all my other cities. It was a disheartening experience, I can tell you...

[Sable]

Hmm, sorry guys .The rules.txt file included in the original package wasn't the final one

The movement of envoys should be 1 not 2 or 3. And, nobody has complained about this yet here, but the newly built Roman cities do not have a name. That's another ruls.txt bug. I'll have the replacement file ready asap.

Sorry again. I'll post here again when the new rules.txt is up.

[Sable]

Problem fixed. The actual final version is now up on the Spanish Site. Please download it again. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.

[Prometeus]

To Sable

Great !!!!
got my pics ?
have a nice day
Prometeus

P.S. Instead of Carthaginian bribing, why don't you put the Numidian chavalry on your next version?

[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 17, 2000).]

[blackclove]

Yay!

Romans don't build cities. We just conquer them.

Maybe I'll try playing as one of the Iberian tribes for a while and see if I can survive I need a break from writing anyway.

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-Blackclove
Email: blackclove.geo@yahoo.com
Web: members.xoom.com/platehead/

[BeBMan]

quote: Originally posted by blackclove on 06-17-2000 03:36 PM Romans don't build cities. We just conquer them.

Exactly, blackclove!

And thanks, Sable, for the good work!!!

[Prometeus]

Yeah !!! i smashed Carthaginians at last !!! great !!! super !!!

to Sable
If you'll want to make a scenario on Mediterranean and/or Sardinian Aragona expansion, just make a whistle, i'll send you hints ( i'm pretty expert, indeed: my Sardinian mother's family has French-Iberic roots - my Sardinian father family comes from Genoa, instead: he's much more stingy than a Scottish !!! ).
P.S. i like Martialis very much - expecially the forbidden one ...
[This message has been edited by Prometeus (edited June 17, 2000).]

[BeBMan]

Yeah, this scenario is really one of the best I´ve ever played...until the Carthagians start to bribe everything.

Please, JB, would you think about this point? It´s a bit annoying, my Legions fighted bravely to take some Carthagian cities, but after a few more turns, all these cities were lost again...