a very byzantine change of plans

[Varwnos]

I decided to take my time in maiking a different byz scenario, this one is a hypothetical scenario, what would have happened if Consantine Palaiologos diecided to continue the war from Morea, abandoning Constantinople to the turks? (well it is hypothetical, we know that it didnt happen).

nations will be:
-morean greeks
-epirotan greeks (rebels, no city from the start)
-ottoman empire
-genoa
-decentralised turks (not sure yet, it is either them or another latin kingdom though)
-the dutchy of Athens
-Ressurected minor latin kingdoms in Morea (fantasy)

here is a still from the new, bigger map. ps: dont expect this to be finished anytime soon. i just wanted to give you an idea of what i will be working on, from time to time ty for your support (and admiration sometimes, heh, well thats good too) about my units etc

[curtsibling]

Nice one, mate!
Well, keep at it, and update the thread with new stuff!

I have mucho respect for all creators, and I admire finished scens most of all!

[Varwnos]

Another change of plans. The scenario will be starting in 1401 and it will be historical. Playable nations are:
1) the byzantine empire (central and parts of southern morea, Thessalonike, Anchialos -in coastal east-northern thrace- and Constantinople)
2) Venice (most of the islands)
3) the dutchy of Athens (a part of central greece)
4) the three latin kingdoms (it will be named after the dutchy of Achaia -most of western morea) but they also control the southern ionian islands and some major eastern islands, and also some cities in Epiros (Ioannena and two other ones)
5) Albania (three cities)
6) the knights order of st. John Hospitaler (Rhodes and some other islands, like Kos)
7) not sure if this will be the ottomans, i may make use the raging hordes of barbarians option for them, since the map doesnt include all of the ottoman conquest of the period. So this spot is still open, i might use it to create two latin kingdoms.

here is a pic from byzantine Morea

i need latin & venetian units...
i will work on this scenario rather slowly, so no early release

[yaroslav]

Do you accept a suggestion (or two)?

There are two byzantine scens I'd like to play more than anything else

1) A what-if about Maniaces. He appears to have been a brave and intelligent general, that was killed by an arrow. I bet he could have established a powerful disnaty just at the end of the Macedonian Dynasty.

2) A heoric, very hard-to-win (near impossible) scen about the last days of Constatinople - play it and taste how heoric and sad was the fall of the roman empire!

[Varwnos]

I am not familiar with Maniakes, the only book i have read about the empire was centered in the reign of Romanos Diogenes (battle of Matzikert) and started in the end of the Macedonian Dynasty, so it might have mentioned him, but i dont recall. I certainly remember the horrible puppet king Mourtzouflos, who was such a coward that he let the latins steal his royal clothes and crown (he basically escaped wearing peasant clothes, this happened during the 4rth crusade).

Well this scenario is almost the second one you mentioned you would like to play

The dutchy of Achaia will be the seventh civ, and the other latin kingdoms will be one civ. So no ottoman empire in the game, they will be simulated by barbarian cities and massive level of barbarian activity (well apart from Albania they were in war with everyone else at some time, and Albania was conquered in the end as well, so it makes sense, besides it would be dead boring to play as the ottomans in 1401)

apart from the byzantine empire, which is the one to play, i think that the dutchy of Achaia, the knight order of st. John and the dutchy of Athens will be a lot of fun. The other minor latin kingdoms are too far away from each other to be very strong, Albania only has 3 cities and is isolated (ottoman empire and northern latin kingdom are its bordering states) and Venice simply is too overwelmingly the strongest naval force to be really fun. Curt, Yaroslav, can you find any nice latin-venetian units? I guess that i could use the ones from Daroe but i would like to have more options since they dont look at all like my own units

[yaroslav]

I dunno... I mean, there hasn't been designed too much venetian units as far as I know.

This is the unit.gif of the Hanti's four sea republics. The graphics are generic, but I wonder if some of them could fit your needs.

[yaroslav]

About Mainakes, I don't know too much about him, but he appears to have won many victories in Italy and be an able man

[Arthedain]

Fairline made some great roman units (and their enemies). This includes Byzantine units. But I don't think that they'll match your own style that you already use.

[Varwnos]

Well i dont plan to make non byzantine units since i a)lack the models and b) my editing program's licence has expired

so the non byzantine units will look less cool (heh) But at least they should be of the same size, otherwise it wont work

[Varwnos]

some more of the byz units i made, i think that the knights of st john order will have some byz units as well since in the end they drew in greeks in big numbers in the order possibly some byz units (named epirotan cavalry, infantry, archers etc) will be used for Albania as well. and also perhaps one barbarian unit.

[Varwnos]

Ok, i decided to try to make my own latin and other western european units, although i dont have any models etc. so here are two units for the kngihts of Rhodes. They are the weakest player in the game (along with albania ofcourse) so i tried to make them look as scary as possible heh. the monstrous helmets may be altered later on though, what do you think? i dsont think that they look that bad, although they arent as cool as some of the byz units

[Cyrion]

Good!

If you allow a few remarks: the bowman might use some more work:
1) the bow looks strange to me
2) the way the (scary ) helmet sits on his head might be adjusted a bit...

In my opinion, it's necessary that you draw the units yourself, because so you'll have an homogenous (and good looking ) batch of units! So you are doing the right thing!

So keep on drawing!

[Varwnos]

Well you are right, the helmets just had to go, and i edited the units a bit. I still dont like the knights of st john horseman though. the venetian unit looks a bit cooler i think

[Varwnos]

changes:

-new map (its an edited, and increased in size version of the DAROE map, however i dont like the fact that in scale it is smaller than the one i was using, although in overall size it is bigger)

-dropped nation "knihts of st john"
-new nation "Serbia"

the other nations are the same.
(pic removed)

-Venice (cyan)
-Dutchy of Patrai (Orange)
-Byzantine Empire (Blue)
-(latin) Kingdom of Korinthos (red)
-Dutchy of Athens (deep blue)

i still need latin units, my own arent that good

[Varwnos]

the rather ugly castles were replaced with a "border" shield. the castles will serve for increased diffuculty of siege in some cities.

atm i am finished with morea, epiros & albanian coast and most of venice, the latin powers and some of serbia. what remains to be done with the cities is to place the massive amount of barbarian (ottoman) controlled cities. i dont see anyone offering any latin units, so this is going to be slow

ps: the yellow & white shield is i trust the coat of arms of the Angevin kingdom (tuscany and papal states i think) which is used for the kingdom of Korinthos border since the kingdom of Korinthos was just a vassal of those italian powers anyway, and so was the duchy of Athens, which shall have a different borber probably though. The byzantine border shield is the known one, and the coat of arms with the four B's is used for the byzantine units.
I do not have the coat of arms of serbia, and i am not sure that the albanian coat of arms is known, i really doubt that it is the black two-headed eagle on the red background, but i am not sure. Also i am not sure that the "nation" was called albania at the time, but that doesnt matter much.
I dont have a venetian coat or arms, but i will probably make my own from europa universalis (unless someone provides something)