Aaarrrggghhh!!!

[Kautilya]

Hmm the EU interface can be incredibly annoying at first. ( the way the religion screen is hidden in particular is a stroke of perverse genius) but it is OK once you get used to it.

I don't think it makes sense giving up this game because of two fairly minor bugs.(not even bugs really). And in genral my experience is that if you encounter a problem, unless it completely cripples the game play , it is best to move on and continue to fiddle around. Usually you will find the solution without trying just by accident. That eliminates the frustration of spending hours just trying to figure out one thing which is definitely a chore.

Frankly I think EU is superior to Civ2 both in its realistic historical modelling and in the fact that it avoids a lot of what I found extremely tedious micromanagement in Civ.

Once you have got over your frustration I suggest you give EU another try over a weekend.

BTW in case you haven't seen it this is a nice FAQ by Oranje from the EU forums: http://home.hetnet.nl/~copia-fs/faq/index.htm

It answered a few of the interface questions I had and is a good complement to the manual.

[yin26]

John-SJ,

If you are interested in selling or trading, please let me know. namk26@hotmail.com Thanks.

[Steve Clark]

John-SJ, my friend, sorry for the knee-jerk reaction. It's not a generational thing since you and I are both 40+. Why people love games like The Sims or the upcoming BW is beyond my comprehension. But we all have different interests, so that's cool (as long as I don't have to hear Imran keep trolling about BW ).

EU is a game that takes some effort. I have no problems technically or with the UI or anything else, it's just the 'hook' hasn't got there yet for me. I am anxious to play the Amer Rev. scenario, since I know it'll be better than the Civ2, which I liked.

[John-SJ]

quote: Originally posted by Steve Clark on 03-11-2001 11:40 AM John-SJ, my friend, sorry for the knee-jerk reaction. It's not a generational thing since you and I are both 40+.

No problem. With my response I was basically having a bit of fun.

quote: Why people love games like The Sims or the upcoming BW is beyond my comprehension. But we all have different interests, so that's cool (as long as I don't have to hear Imran keep trolling about BW ).

quote: EU is a game that takes some effort. I have no problems technically or with the UI or anything else, it's just the 'hook' hasn't got there yet for me. I am anxious to play the Amer Rev. scenario, since I know it'll be better than the Civ2, which I liked.

I'm sure I'll be trying EU again in the future (sorry Yin) and I hope we can both find that "hook".

BTW, stop by the Civ II General forum sometime and considering getting into one of the "Succession Games". I'm playing in 2 right now and they are a BLAST! These games are different in that you can't play a whole game with a single strategy. Since other players are involved you face many of the same problems that a national leader faces, desiring to institute his own policies, but in a limited time, and having to "clean up" after the previous leader whose policies are no doubt different than yours. Check it out sometime, these games offer a unique, and FUN, challenge.

John-SJ

[Steve Clark]

I think I've found the answer...

http://www.europa-universalis.com/fo...&threadid=5148


In a nutshell, the 'hook' for me is 'Being There' (esp. with newer games). EU is just a complex computerized boardgame with little or no immersiveness.

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: I really hope B&W lives up to the hype, though I think that's almost impossible. I'm just glad I have a computer that will be more than enough to play and enjoy it.

If any game can live up to the hype, it is B&W... I mean, no one can find anything wrong (Game reviewers included). I have it preordered and I will not stop playing .

quote: BTW, how much memory do you have on your system? Have you looked into any memory programs (eg MemTubro, reclaims memory)?

96 MBs, and a game such as EU should have no problems running on that much RAM .

Steve, I responded to your post, and I wholehartedly agree... THAT is why I haven't really been jumping to play it (and the memory hogging ). The 'hook' is a problem. That is why I don't mind Civ3 team focusing on nice graphics... the AOE type graphics will have a better 'being there' type of feel.

[Steve Clark]

But that's just it, EU has AoE animated sprites/gifs, and we know that Civ3 will have at least that. But it needs to be more than that. IMO, being on the ground for at least some gameplay elements will make it much more immersive. I don't mind play Civ2 or Pharaoh looking down, but for any other games, I want to be down there.

I would blame Combat Mission for forever screwing up my view on this.

[John-SJ]

"I would blame Combat Mission for forever screwing up my view on this."

You said it! The term "being there" could have been coined specifically for that game. Nobody has gotten the concept of being there any better than Combat Mission!

John-SJ

[yin26]

By the way, I just have to laugh how some people at Apolyton (not necessarily the originator of this thread but a certain participant, perhaps?) were screaming and crying for a EU forum because, well, EU was just the BEST DAMN STRATEGY game ever!


LOL! Now look at this..."No hook" "Memory hog"

This has just reaffirmed my previous thoughts. Some people here you can trust. Others. Well, others are just here for entertainment.

I'm still interested in this game, however, so if anybody wants to sell or trade it with me, contact me and we can do the deal.

namk26@hotmail.com

[Steve Clark]

I just chalk it up to youthful exuberance.

Let me add what I wrote in another forum about this...

quote: I have reached the point that nowadays (esp. with a new PC), I want and need to be on the ground when playing (the "Being There" factor). I don't mind (and love) playing Civ2 and Pharaoh looking down, but that's it. Every other game, now and forevermore, I must have some views from the ground-level. It all goes back to one thing...Combat Mission. For a long, long time, grognards played all sorts of wargames looking down on a hex-based (or similar) battlefield (or ocean). Then along came the total revolutionary Combat Mission which took the same style of gameplay and puts you directly on the battlefield, with all of its accurate sights and sounds. This is why they said that CM killed the wargame because once you're there, you can't go back. I would also say it's the same for action/adventure/rpg games. Why anyone would play Diablo II looking down instead of many of the other RPGs where you have a FP/3P-view, is beyond me (if you're into that sort of thing). That's why I had no interest in CutThroats but immediately latched onto Sea Dogs. Why play Gangsters II looking down when you can 'Be There' playing Mafia? If Civ2 was Xs and Os on a grid, it will still be fun; but for Civ3, we are expecting it to feel like you are in that world and care about what's happening (just like I do playing Pharaoh). I can't quite say that for EU yet.

[Shadowstrike]

I've read that somewhere before.... but I can't put my finger on it...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yin,

I don't remember anyone (well, Depp maybe) saying EU was the best strategy game ever on this site. Me, John-SJ, and (perhaps) Steve, I know were asking for one because the game was very Civ-like.

Hell, I'll still play the game now and again, and this forum will still get its posts (certainly outdid the Dino's forum).

Perhaps you should clarify your remarks and say who are those you "can't trust". It'd have to be a European, because when we clamored for a forum (with some interesting thinking by John ) the game wasn't out in the US.

I just wonder if you even know what the Hell you are talking about?

(edit) This can help jog your memory, if need be:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum20/HTML/001339.html?37
[This message has been edited by Imran Siddiqui (edited March 11, 2001).]

[yin26]

Imran,

If I'm not mistaken, you were the band-leader of trying to get this forum. Also, and again I might be mistaken, you were squealing like a little school-girl: "Imran has EU in his grubby little hands" or some such thing. From there, I began to tune out all the praises (not just from you, but also others) because I knew the truth would surface.

It's O.K., Imran. You are entitled to stay in character.

Yin

[yin26]

By the way, I'm still interested in the game. It's not like we haven't encountered a "memory hog" game in the past. I just wonder...it seems you gave up on the game awfully fast after all your excitement. What happened?

[John-SJ]

Yin, To whom are you speaking? I don't think anyone has said that they are giving up on the game. Did I miss something?

John-SJ