Paradox Newbie is wondering...

[Kinjiru]

Okay, so I haven't played any Paradox games, but have been playing the civ series since it's inception. I am wondering a few things...

In the main Other Games forum I had mentioned that I was going to pick up EU III, but folks seemed to imply that I should wait at least six months. Does Paradox release games that need heavy rebalancing and tweaking to be playable and fun (i.e. are they like most studios nowadays) or is the expectation that the game be fun from the get-go.

I expect the learning curve to be pretty high. Are there any good sites to get a low-down on the mechanics? Other than getting and playing EU2, I mean?

Pacing. I generally play my strat games on the largest map settings (and in civ 4 I play epic or marathon speed). Thus, each game can last quite a long time, into the 30-40 hour range. Can I expect something similiar for EUIII? Shorter? Longer?

I realize that with the game not out yet, all the vets can only offer speculation, and that is fine. I am just really trying to get an accurate set of expectations.

Thanks!

[lord of the mark]

Re: Paradox Newbie is wondering...

Originally posted by Kinjiru
Okay, so I haven't played any Paradox games, but have been playing the civ series since it's inception. I am wondering a few things...

In the main Other Games forum I had mentioned that I was going to pick up EU III, but folks seemed to imply that I should wait at least six months. Does Paradox release games that need heavy rebalancing and tweaking to be playable and fun (i.e. are they like most studios nowadays) or is the expectation that the game be fun from the get-go.

I expect the learning curve to be pretty high. Are there any good sites to get a low-down on the mechanics? Other than getting and playing EU2, I mean?

Pacing. I generally play my strat games on the largest map settings (and in civ 4 I play epic or marathon speed). Thus, each game can last quite a long time, into the 30-40 hour range. Can I expect something similiar for EUIII? Shorter? Longer?

I realize that with the game not out yet, all the vets can only offer speculation, and that is fine. I am just really trying to get an accurate set of expectations.

Thanks!

I. EU2 is on version 1.09. I dont know how long it was before they got rid of the serious kinks, as I got it at 1.08, when it was fine (but i tend to buy games late and cheap) My impression is that they are notorious for releasing stuff that has problems and needs patching. Does that make them like other studios? They are also known for not only patching the major problems, but continuing to make refinements and improvements for years, after the game is "ok", and for really listening to their fan community. Id say they are a pretty good developer. Whether you want to buy their games right away depends on how much you love those games, I guess.

2. The best site is the Paradox Forums which has a HUGE and active community. Sometimes its so big I find it unmanageable, and prefer to come here. The small Paradox fan community at Poly can be helpful. PF though has links to all kinds of other help sites.

3. Id say the games can easily last that long. Im going by EU2 and Vickie.

[BeBMan]

Re: Paradox Newbie is wondering...

Originally posted by Kinjiru

In the main Other Games forum I had mentioned that I was going to pick up EU III, but folks seemed to imply that I should wait at least six months. Does Paradox release games that need heavy rebalancing and tweaking to be playable and fun (i.e. are they like most studios nowadays) or is the expectation that the game be fun from the get-go.

Yes and no, many Paradox games needed fixes and were patched quite often, but IMO those I like most (EU2, HOI2/DD) were still fun to play from the start. I personally wouldn't wait half a year per se, I would check the reactions at Paradoxplaza for the first 2-3 weeks and then get it unless there are serious problems reported.

I expect the learning curve to be pretty high. Are there any good sites to get a low-down on the mechanics? Other than getting and playing EU2, I mean?

Also there are very detailed wikis for Paradox games with lots of info, eg gameplay and modding guides:

http://hoi2.nsen.ch/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

http://victoria.nsen.ch/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

http://dhost.info/arsud/mediawiki-1.4rc1/index.php/Main_Page

They will probably do the same for EU III.

[Nikolai]

Paradox games has been more and more refined for every release, personally I'd buy it right away if nothing big comes up in the reviews. Already now they are coming and so far I haven't seen anything bad.

The learning curve is pretty steep for PI games, but EU3 is said to have made it better. Still, do not expect to master the game at once. I recommend you to visit and register at Paradox's forums, the people there are eager to help.

As for pacing, how much time you use depends on your settings for speed and how much you pause. Do expect quite some time for a full game though. The timespan for EU3 is slightly shorter than EU2's(thankfully, as EU2 had problems with simulating both the renaissance and the napoleonic times), but there are more to do in EU3, so I think you can expect the game to last around as long as EU2.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Paradox games has been more and more refined for every release, personally I'd buy it right away if nothing big comes up in the reviews. Already now they are coming and so far I haven't seen anything bad.

Uhm... Victoria and Crusader Kings are the most recent releases of Paradox and they are far from being refined. Probably less so than the previous games. Victoria only jsut recently recieved the patching it needed through the form of an expansion pack, and last time I checked Crusader Kings was still going through extensive beta patching.

[kolpo]

EU3 shall also be my first paradox game, one guide that was very usefull is: http://www.vpltd.com/freedownload/IGEU2.pdf

It is about EU2 but many things shall stay the same in EU3 as in EU2, so it is still very usefull.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by General Ludd



Uhm... Victoria and Crusader Kings are the most recent releases of Paradox and they are far from being refined. Probably less so than the previous games. Victoria only jsut recently recieved the patching it needed through the form of an expansion pack, and last time I checked Crusader Kings was still going through extensive beta patching.

I thought diplomacy and HOI2 were the most recent releases.

Ive played Vickie with the last patch before Revolutions, and its a pretty good game, if you can tolerate the level of micromanagement. Ive never played CK, but lots of folks say its quite fun.

[BeBMan]

CK is simply messed up (my completely subjective judgement of course ). Vicky I don't know.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I thought diplomacy and HOI2 were the most recent releases.

Ive played Vickie with the last patch before Revolutions, and its a pretty good game, if you can tolerate the level of micromanagement. Ive never played CK, but lots of folks say its quite fun.

I forgot diplomacy, but I'm fairly certain that victoria is more recent than HoI2 (not doomsday) although I may be wrong... it's been a while.

[Nikolai]

HoI2 came waaaay later than Vickie. But you probably think of the XP Victoria: Revolutions, which came in August 2006.

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by General Ludd



Uhm... Victoria and Crusader Kings are the most recent releases of Paradox and they are far from being refined. Probably less so than the previous games. Victoria only jsut recently recieved the patching it needed through the form of an expansion pack, and last time I checked Crusader Kings was still going through extensive beta patching.

Bull****.

The releases has been like this after EU2:

HoI1 (November 2002)
Victoria (November 2003)
HoI2 (January 2004)
CK[after three takeovers and restarts because Snowball screwed things up] (September 2004)
Diplomacy (October 2005)
HoI2D (April 2006)
V:R (August 2006)

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Nikolai
HoI2 came waaaay later than Vickie. But you probably think of the XP Victoria: Revolutions, which came in August 2006.

No, I'm not. I was probably thinking of HoI rather than HoI2.

[Dinner]

One great thing about Paradox is that they keep supporting their games years after other companies would have stopped. Four years after EU2 was released they were still putting out new patches and betas in response to fan requests. That's freaking awesome.

That said they are a small company who doesn't have extremely deep pockets. They sometimes do release games which need rebalancing and tweaking but they eventually do that stuff for free. I have no complaints with HOI2 and it worked well out of the box. HOI2: DD was even better with big improvements to AI and new features.

I also bought Victoria Revolutions and found it to be a major step up from the normal Victoria. Better AI, better trade (meaning global resource production no long shrank as time went on), and much better economic system. I love it how capitalists can now start their own industry rather then waiting for the government to direct everything.