england, protestants, and missionaries

[lord of the mark]

ok so i went Protestant with 1534 event. I sent out several missionaries, figuring Henry had good admin, and immediate followers wouldnt. I got lucky - all hit - so delaware and manhattan converted from pagan, and all the catholic provinces in England that didnt go reform went protestant (one by random event) Northumberland, which went Reform( by Calvin event) after id sent a missionary, went Protestant too. So only off religion provinces ive got are the two remaining Reform provinces, and the Irish provinces (and calais - which is rebel controlled and im hoping to lose) Ive gone to high tolerance for Reform.

Now its 1558 and im about to get Liz. Who should have strong admin. Which i could use to convert Ireland (ill come up with some RP justification) and the Reform provinces, or maybe some new conquests in the new world.

Except i dont have any missionaries. With high innovativeness, and Protestant, I actually generate NEGATIVE missionaries.

What can I do - other than go full narrowminded, or convert to Reform? Is Protestant designed to give this dilemma? Should I be playing Protestant as trader or colonist, but NOT as conqueror of new world pagans?

Your thoughts?

[CerberusIV]

Your problem is the high innovative, not your state religion. That will also cause you difficulties later with stability costs if you go for a large colonial empire, not to mention needing more missionaries if you conquer more pagans.

Going Reformed won't really help, you need to go narrowminded to get missionaries. One a year is enough so you shouldn't have to go too far.

Elizabethan England did interfere heavily in Ireland (wait for Hugh O'Neill's rebellion - coming soon to a province near you ). So it is realistic to try and convert the Irish as it reflects religious changes brought about by english and scottish immigration to Ireland.

[Seeker]

He's right about your high Innovation. It's better for England to have medium or just 1 notch below 0 Innovation.

Max Innovation is NOT very good for countries that occupy other cultures (England with gaelic) and other religions. Both of these will cause stability increase penalties.

It's one of the reasons the AI Ottomans tend to suck.

Try max Innovation in a country that only occupies it's own culture and religion (example, Savoy, Florence, Portugal)

Countries whose empire are likely to be multicultural and mulirelgion are better off with low Innovation, off-set with high centralization (i.e. Spain)

[Sandman]

Culture has no effect on stability. It does indirectly affect it by making conversions harder.

Top tip: Your conversion success rate is dependent on your monarch's admin skill. If you get the 'excellent minister' event, try minting as much money as possible and go wild with missionaries for as long as the minister lasts.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sandman
Culture has no effect on stability. It does indirectly affect it by making conversions harder.

Top tip: Your conversion success rate is dependent on your monarch's admin skill. If you get the 'excellent minister' event, try minting as much money as possible and go wild with missionaries for as long as the minister lasts.

But i dont have any missionaries. Ive used them all. And im not getting any more, until i move a couple of steps away from Innov, apparently.

But im not sure how worth it it is. I started in 1492, NOT 1419, so i dont have the tech lead built up early. Ive got infra 4, and im researching tech 3(? the one that gives monopolies) Ive only got a few off religion provinces - 4 in ireland, 2 in england, and calais, which is under rebel control. my thought was to stay innovative, get real strong in tech, THEN go more narrowminded and expand.

[CerberusIV]

The trick with England is to get down to only 2 religions in the British Isles ASAP. Usually it's best to eliminate Catholicism. That allows max tolerance for Protestant and Reformed so those provinces can have tax collectors with (usually) no revolt risk. You can then half tolerate Catholicism so can take such provinces from rivals and convert them then promote tax collectors. Avoid taking Orthodox or Muslim provs and you can set the tolerance to those religions to minimum. But you still need to be sufficiently narrowminded to be getting missionaries, even if only slowly.

You should lose Calais to France (which is the right thing to do) after the rebels have controlled it for a couple of years.

As for tech, trade 3, infra 3 is the first step. I would then go for infra 5 and governors. You shouldn't need to do any land or naval research until after that as you started with reasonably high tech in those areas (higher than I would have researched from a 1419 start).

[lord of the mark]

ive already raised tolerance for Reform, and lowered it for Catholics.

I was thinking of going further on trade tech, to become a primarily trading state? I guess England isnt the ideal country to play to do that? Or just that England can do so many other things.

I wasnt really planning on conquering anywhere on the continent. My plan was just to expand overseas.

[binTravkin]

Hit, F12, type in "dagama" and voila!

But the advice is to be calculating how mych inno you can "afford":

You have +1 missionary as Protestant (latest beta).
one inno reduces it by -40, so you can run +0.20 missionaries per month = 0.2 * 12 = 2.4 per year if your inno is 7 (2 steps to the right from the middle).

Basically the idea is that CRC, orto and catholicism allows the most innovativeness among all religions while Islam and Protestant pushes you to run lower and buddhism/paganism/confucianism even more lower.

The best combination for a good techspeed and conversion possibility is catholic + 9 inno.
CRC has it's benefits (morale and stab the most notable) too but you might not like the colonisation chance hit (CRC does not consider catholic provinces as the same religion thus -5% colonisation chance).

[binTravkin]

Top tip: Your conversion success rate is dependent on your monarch's admin skill. If you get the 'excellent minister' event, try minting as much money as possible and go wild with missionaries for as long as the minister lasts.

A very bad idea usually as excellent minister almost never lasts long enough to finish the conversion (5 years in average)
If you get a 3/3/3 monarch, get minister (now 9/9/9) mint and send missionaries then, when you have some 15 months left your minister expires and you try converting at some 40% rate (for own culture provinces) it's a BIG mistake.
Only adds to your inflation.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by binTravkin
You have +1 missionary as Protestant (latest beta).
one inno reduces it by -40, so you can run +0.20 missionaries per month = 0.2 * 12 = 2.4 per year if your inno is 7 (2 steps to the right from the middle).

No, it is missionaries per year, not per month. Inno 7 gives one missionary every 5 years on this calculation.

Originally posted by binTravkin
A very bad idea usually as excellent minister almost never lasts long enough to finish the conversion (5 years in average)
If you get a 3/3/3 monarch, get minister (now 9/9/9) mint and send missionaries then, when you have some 15 months left your minister expires and you try converting at some 40% rate (for own culture provinces) it's a BIG mistake.
Only adds to your inflation.

Sorry, completely wrong. It is the monarchs ADM rating WHEN THE MISSIONARY IS SENT that is used to decide success or failure. Whether the conversion attempt will succeed or fail is written into the save file at that point.

Incidentally, there is another reason for not going too high on innovation. As long as innovation is no more than 4 there is a chance of getting a random conquistador to help exploration and colonisation.

[lord of the mark]

Im playing vanilla 1.8, not the betas, so its only .5 missionaries as protestant (before the DP effects)

[binTravkin]

No, it is missionaries per year, not per month. Inno 7 gives one missionary every 5 years on this calculation.

Which is usually pretty much enough to convert a minor number of provinces.