Lorraine Cooperative Game Thread

[Velociryx]

Hey man, and thank ya! Yeah, there is no doubt...England is the T-Rex of Europe in this game, and could prolly beat the snot out of the whole of the Chinese army if they were to somehow come calling!

My hope is, however, that we can win a fistful of additional provinces from France and Brittany to fully unify our holdings, and gain undisputed mastery over the French provinces, then use that to chart our own dominance by eyeballing those German minors....

-=Vel=-

[Dinner]

It seems like your goal should be to kill off France and then use the event to become France. That way you get all of Frances explorers, leaders, and special events plus you still get to keep your German culture as well.

[Nikolai]

Are you sure Lorraine can become France? I didn't think so...

[Velociryx]

Yep...Lorraine is my hands down favorite country to play, BELIEVE me, I checked into that early on! Sadly, Lorraine is not one of the countries that can become France (but even stranger, Luxumburg, with German culture only), CAN!

-=Vel=-

[Nikolai]

Maybe some event tweaking could be in order here...?

[Velociryx]

Tempting....VERY tempting, but I'd like to see just how far we can get/how well we can do without tweaking the events....if we were to become France, the game would be a total cakewalk from the moment we did....

-=Vel=-

PS: Was gonna hold off on advancing this thread till we hear from Rav and some of the other folks who have commented, but I might run it up slightly just to keep the interest in it...

[Dinner]

If Luxumburg can become France then I'd make an event which allows Lorraine to become France. It just makes sense.

[kkarol]

ok you won! great to watch ;-) but France is still alive... anyway what comes next? won't Englad, your present ally become too strong? how are we goin' to rival them?
2 more ponts:
1) u mentioned playing Aragon - two cultures again -!- how was it goi'? how about a thread on this game?
2) there's also Sovois - a two-culture nation again, i guess, and it seems what you've done for Lorraine works with them as well - i've checked but on a 'normal' level :-)
well, i can't wait the next part of the Great History of Lorrain :-)

[kkarol]

some more ideas
1. giarantees to small countries as to get CBs with France and maybe Burgundy i mean Luxemb, Provence, Auvergne, and zes in due time Burgundz itself + it gets torn apart about 1480 by France and Austria, also guarantee to Sovios as France tends to vassalise and annex it
2. Fortification level 2 at least ne rebellion free Lorraine
3. Problem Engladn will vassalise and prolly annex Navarra, what then? Possible conflicts between England and Spain tho...
4. Let Frans exist with 2,3 provs especially, imortant! Vandea... let France build colonies than strike and take over ...Remember the Scotland thread!

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Velociryx

PS: Was gonna hold off on advancing this thread till we hear from Rav and some of the other folks who have commented, but I might run it up slightly just to keep the interest in it...

Sorry bud.

The interest id definitely still there but the time is a-lacking as I'm utterly flat out right now.


The few little bits that I've managed to glean sound eminently sensible though.

[Last gasp edit: One teensy thing about the slider adjustments. Don't overlook the benefits of going defensive. Its a bit of a risk and you need a reasonably-sized army to pull it off once the AI land tech starts getting higher (and their defensive fortresses become bigger) but the +1 siege applied to several different siege-attack groups going to work simultaneously knocks over their provinces at an utterly amazing pace. ]

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Yep...Lorraine is my hands down favorite country to play, BELIEVE me, I checked into that early on! Sadly, Lorraine is not one of the countries that can become France (but even stranger, Luxumburg, with German culture only), CAN!

-=Vel=-

Lorraine only has one CB shield and no great leaders! What's more it's monarches aren't even that great. Lorraine would be an excellent choice if it could become France just like every other French minor and even a german minor (Luxumburg) can.

If your goal is just to play a country with lots of different cultures then the Knights of St. John would be a good choice. Your starting position sucks since you don't intially have Greek culture and you're a Catholic country stuck on a Greek orthodoxed island, but, you start with French & Italian culture and events give you Greek and Maltese culture so you potentially can have HUGE amounts of man power. All you have to do is find a way into Italy and France.

Of course preventing the Turk from taking Constantinople also helps.

[Velociryx]

Played another segment, and many great tidings to report!

For the slider adjustment of 1439, I took Aristoc -1, for the +2% increase to trade effie, and +1% increase to production.

Not long after that, Brittany acquired Orleanais from the battered French, essentially bottom-feeding off of our success against French might.

Decidedly unhappy with this turn of events, and with an eye toward linking our estates in Poitou with the rest of the Kingdom, we see little choice but to declare against the men of Brittany, and so this is done, per our discussions earlier here.

Our allies rally 'round that cry to battle, and once again, 'twas our allies who saved the day, and made winning this war a reality, though as you will see in the summary below, our own troops made a solid showing for themselves.

Pre-War Maneuverings and Preparation
To open up a broader range of both offensive and defensive options to our forces, a Treaty of Military Access is signed with the English, allowing our forces to move freely through their lands.

Letters are written to the Duke of Burgundy, as our relations with the Duke have cooled (to a low of +23) with the passage of time. Two letters and a personal gift to the Duke of Burgundy, and we feel certain that he will support our war effort when called upon to do so.

Finally, as Savoy and Genoa are allied to Brittany, we arrange Royal Marriages with both, such that they will be forced to break them and take the hit to national stability if they support Brittany against us.

As a last step, the Royal Marriage we had arranged with Brittany previously (to keep an eye on them), is cancelled, and our troops are placed on full alert, being posted thusly:

Lorraine Regiment to Nivernais
Artois Regiment to Caux
Picardie Regiment to Caux
Poitou Regiment holding in Poitou (isolated and unable to participate in this war)

Thus, we are poised to send three of our four regiments into Orleanais, crossing the Sein river in force and establishing a strong presence on the western side before Brittany can bring sufficient force to that province to prevent it. Once there, we shall fend off any attacks made against our position, and strike more deeply into the territory of Brittany as opportunities arise.

1442 passes quietly, and sees our loan repaid whilst we are making these ware preparations, and by April 1st, 1443, all is in readiness, and war is declared against Brittany.

Collectively, our three (3) battle regiments give us 19,820/6560 marching on Orleanais, and in a panic, the men of Brittany hurl the only available force in the path of our army, in an effort to stall our advance.

Sadly, the 135 Cavalry they send against us are far, far too few to prevent our river crossing, and we sweep them aside as though they were gnats, losing all of fourteen infantry crossing the river.

A siege is promptly established in Orleanais, and we await further developments.

May 2nd, a force of 8981/2855 from Maine (held by Brittany) arrives to give battle. We utterly destroy this force by the 17th, and are left with 18,208/6323 in our three regiments.

By July, with some progress on the siege in Orleanais (walls to -2), and the road to Maine open, we cautiously advance the Artois and Lorraine regiments into Maine, while the Picardie regiment maintains our siege in Orleanais. This group is assist in late July by an army of some 20,000 Burgundians, arriving from Bourgogne to add mass to our siege operation.

Unfortunately, our Artois/Lorraine strike force arrives in Maine at nearly the same time as a strong regiment of Brittan soldiers from Morbihan. This group of 8828/1823 gives us a start, but their heart is not much into the battle at hand, and in less than two weeks' time our combined army of 12,629/6323 has destroyed this group utterly, marking the second battle group so mauled by our forces (we have 11,647/6126 after this engagement).

If there is a dark stain on our efforts to date, it is that a large army of Savoy (~23k) has arrived in Comte and is laying siege, and we have no forces to spare which we could send against them, however, in looking at our (mild) casualties to date, and our expanding military capacity, we discover that we can now raise 5k new recruits, and so this is done, with 3k Infantry being called up in Nivernais, and 2k Cavalry from Champagne.

By September, our allies from Geldre make a bold but ultimately doomed-to-fail attack with a rogue brigade of 5k against the army of Savoy in Comte. They dish out a fair amound of death (23 --->18k), but are themselves slain to a man. Our report, however, is that the main body of the Army of Geldre is en route, currently in Brabant, and heading south, nearly thirty thousand strong, and if they too, are bound for Comte, the Savoian siege may yet be broken.

In November, life gets a little more complicated for us, when Eire declares a war against us, dragging Tuscany and the Papal states along with them. Smallish powers, all, and distant enough from our lands that we are not overly concerned...nonetheless, it is a distraction we do not need, and we call on our allies again to be safe (all rally to our aid).

In December, we raise war taxes in light of these new events....just in case.

1444
Sees a couple of sad reversals of fortune for us. Orleanais is captured (on the plus side), and our siege line advances to Morbihan, with the reserve group raised earlier being augmented by another 1k infantry, and sent through our lines to Bretagne, to fully lock down all of Brittany's provinces. Nonetheless, there is recruitment ongoing in both Morbihan and Bretagne, and some fifteen thousand men under Brittany's banner laying siege to English-held Normandie, so it is clear that we're not out of the woods yet.

The main host of Geldre smashes into Savoy's siege group in Comte, and both forces are mauled, but the men of Savoy carry the day (reduced to 8k...Geldre reduced to 11k). The men of Geldre withdraw, only to be replaced scant days later by the twenty-thousand from Burgundy, who returned home after Orleanais was captured, and decided to lend a timely hand. The Savoian siege of Comte is shattered, and the Burgundians follow the broken army back to Savoy proper to end them permanantly and lay siege there.

Meanwhile, eight thousand raw cavalry recruits prove to be too much for the Artois and Lorraine regiments to handle in Morbihan, and after a long, bitter fight, these two units are forced to withdraw to Maine (where the Picardie regiment is laying siege).

The new cavalry recruits rush to Normandie to join their bretheren, rather than fight us again in Maine, and we breathe a sigh of relief and send Artois and Lorraine back to take up siege positions again as soon as the cavalry have cleared out....sadly, the delay has enabled the defenders behind the walls of Morbihan to rebuild their defenses, and we must begin anew (previously, walls had been at -4)

Late-year, a mammoth 30k English army lands in Normandie just days after that province falls to Brittany and lays waste to the army of Brittany, reducing them to some 6k souls before they can beat a hasty retreat. They leave 1k to guard Orleanais, and send the rest toward Savoy. No idea why, but we're not complaining!

The downside....the English depart without recapturing the province, so we shuffle sufficient troops that way to lay in a siege.

Jan 27th, 1446, Normandie is recaptured and we are in full control of all the lands of Brittany. We demand Maine, Orleanais, and 200d from them, and get it!

Immediately after peace is made, we offer 150d of our newly gotten gain to Eire for peace, and they accept.

Lorraine grows stronger, and our battered regiments return home to take on new recruits, and letters of thanks and commendation are sent to England, Geldre, and Burgundy.

[Velociryx]

Our losses in this war, especially when compared to those of our enemies, were actually quite light, and by the end of the war, we see the following force dispositions:

Poitou: 3878/1776 (lost 1346, 1122 infantry and 224 cavalry) - forgot to mention that during our war with Brittany, 3k Irishmen landed in Poitou and were driven into the sea...this skirmish was the cause for what losses we sustained here

Picardie: 2889 (mostly attrition damage as Burgundy heaped unholy amounts of troops on Orleanais to "help" us....the 20k mentioned earlier was just the beginning, sadly. (Picardie's losses were 3111....more than half regimental strength)

Artois: 5979/4207 (lost 2118, 1765 infantry, and 353 horse) - all battle damage against armies of Brittany

Lorraine: 2415/1268 (lost 4393, 3661 infantry, and 732 horse) - again, all battle damage...the Lorraine regiment bore the brunt of the casualties in pitched battles with the armies of Brittany, and the 8k cav recruits in Morbihan rushed their flank of the siege train, causing devastating losses in that battle.

Over the course of the war, 3,000 Infantry and 4,000 cavalry were raised, and of these, 100 horse were lost. Frankly, we're not sure how.

total losses, 10,968 regulars and 100 levies.

We begin to rebuild our regular regiments, shipping the three thousand levied infantry to the Picardie regiment to fill out their roster, sending 1000 cav to the Artois regiment, and 2900 cav to the Lorraine regiment, with an eye toward augmenting both Artois and Lorraine with additional infantry recruitment later.

Unfortunately, as we are patching our battle groups back together, France siezes upon this opportunity to declare war against us....with our troops in sad condition and our units not yet rebuilt after the war against Brittany!

We call upon our allies to assist while we keep our main battle groups (Artois and Lorraine) out of the fighting at LEAST till the end of the year (France Dow'd us in August 1446...we still have 1 point of War Exhaustion from our war with Brittany).

At the moment of the declaration, our battle groups looked like this:

Poitou: 3878/1776 (ready for action, but weaker than spec)

Picardie: 5889/0 (ready for action, but weaker than spec)

Artois: 5979/4207 (with 1k cavalry en route to join them)

Lorraine: 2415/1268 (with 2900 cav en route to join them)

(all regiments posted to the provinces that they were named for)

New max mil is 44k, and we find ourselves in the position of being able to raise 14k troops!

September 1, Poitou regiment ordered to Vendee to begin a siege there. Picardie regiment ordered to Caux. Artois and Lorraine holding, with 2k Infantry being levied for Artois, and 6k Infantry being levied for Lorraine.

Four thousand infantry and two thousand cavalry are raised in Flandern as a general reserve pool for the coming fight.

War Taxes are raised, all efforts to stability, and of course, our military goes on full alert!

October, Picardie to Normandie
November, Picardie to Armor to begin a siege. Newly re-strengthened Lorraine ordered to Champagne, for a possible march on Ile de France.

This is delayed on account of a 29k army from Geldre rampaging through the province, then settling in for a siege of their own. We decide to let them have at it.

Briefly, as 1447 opens, we curve our battle line around Ile de France, with the Lorraine regiment advancing to Nivernais, Artois regiment to Champagne, and the ready reserve to Artois, but the main French army, some 24k strong invades Nivernais bound for Paris, and Lorraine beats a hasty retreat back to let them pass. Ready reserve is brough to Champagne as well, and our force consolidates there, minus the two siege crews we have out and about (Armor and Vendee).

In March, the Army of France ousts the men of Geldre from their positions around the gates of Paris, but their own force is in sorry condition (only some 8k remaining)....Artois, Lorraine, and the Flandern levy invade the province and destroy the French army utterly, taking up siege there as French units begin swarming up from the south, heading in our direction.

We wait, and over the next two months, fend off three separate attacks as the French attempt to break our siege.

The Army of Geldre recovers itself and begins a march back toward paris, so we leave the Flandern levy in charge of the siege, and send Artois and Lorraine south to Nivernais. Meanwhile, our sieges in Armor and Vendee proceed well enough (-4 and -5 respectively), so solid progress there.

By June 20, 1447, Vendee falls to the Poitou regiment, and they remain there to pillage and generally make a nuisance of themselves, being of insufficient strength on their own to move to Berri, which is seeing a steady flow of enemy troop traffic through it, and by July, our twin battering rams, the Artois and Lorraine regiments have marched through Bourgogne, and invade Lyonnais, which is guarded by some three thousand Frenchmen.

This force is overwhelmed by our two veteran regiments, and they promptly begin a siege there.

By August, the traffic flow through Berri has dried up, and Poitou makes for Berri to lock it down. On August 16th, Armor falls to our forces, and Picardie is ordered to Berri with all speed to reinforce Poitou at that location, and on the 27th, the french, with a scant force of four thousand, manage to drive our Flandern levy and nearly thirty thousand from Geldre away from Paris. ARGH! The Flandern levy is shattered and retreats toward Lorraine, where we begin raising 7000/3000 to create a new battle force.

By December, in two delightfully short sieges, both Berri and Lyonnais are captured!

1448
Picardie and Poitou to Maine to await developments

Artois and Lorraine to Languedoc

The Lorraine Levy (Flandern survivors having been rolled into it), advance to comte.

In may, our Duke announces sweeping plans to reform the army (+750 land investment), and we'll wait to hear about this restructuring till AFTER the current war!

and in September, we see a 13k revolt in Zeeland...NOT a good thing!

1449
The year opens with an 11k revolt in Nivernais, but fortunately, this is handily put down by the roving hordes of Geldre, who smash the rebels as they are bound for...wherever it is they're going. In any case, we thank them!

Picardie and Poitou march to Flandern with an eye toward tangling with the Zeeland rebels, and in February, they ALMOST succeed (both sides breaking, but we lose in the end)....they're pretty severely torn up in the engagement, with Picardie being reduced to 3493 infantry, and poitou being hammered to 1928/1386, but we recruit 4000/3000 in Flandern and vow to try again.

March - Sees improvement in our military technology (level 2!!!), and puts us once more on-par with our neighbors and rivals.

April 6th, Dauphin falls (had sent the Lorraine levy from comte further south, and ultimately TO dauphine, which was unguarded), and on may 13, 1449....

[Velociryx]

1450
Another slider adjustment, and again, I went with Aristoc -1 (for the same reasons as the last slider adjustment, actually). National stability +3 (dropping to +2 with the slider adjustment), 255d in the treasury, and a monthly economy at a robust 27.6

Losses in this fight for our main battle groups amounted to:

Poitou: 1209/913

Picardie: 1609 (more than that, but the additional losses were incurred fighting rebels, not enemy armies per se)

Artois: 3317/663

Lorraine: 3313/662

Totals: 9448/2238

Additionally, an estimated 5000 troops were lost from our levy groups due to the attack on Paris and the hard winter in Dauphine.

After the war, our main regiments returned to their provinces of orgin for refitting, and compared to their former roster strengths, all were in somewhat sorry condition:

Poitou: 2669/2863
Picardie: 4199
Artois: 4662/4544
Lorraine: 5102/3506

As part of our new military reformation, Duke Rene announces the following:

The Army of Lorraine shall consist of six (6) regiments henceforth. Three of these shall be termed "Battle Regiments," two shall be termed "Light (Siege) Regiments," and one shall simply be called Fury.

These regiments shall have differing functions:

Battle Regiments shall take the fight to our enemies whenever prudent to do so, but are also capable of initiating and maintaining sieges

Light regiments are designed purely for siege work

Fury is designed to be a scout unit, a roving rebel whacker, and a general terror and pillage unit (all cav).

The Battle Regiments shall be:
Lorraine
Artois
Poitou

The Light Regiments shall be:
Picardie
Maine (new regiment designation)

The Fury Regiment (Cavalry command) shall be:
Zeeland

Artois will be the lead regiment in the army, and will be slightly over-strengthened in that role, but for the moment, the general targets for regimental strength are:

Battle Regiment: 8000/4000
Light Regiment 6000/0
Fury: 0/6000

And so, with this proclamation in mind, our armies were duly divided, and additional troops raised, with the following outcomes:

Battle Regiments
Artois: 8000/4544
Lorraine: 8102/3506
Poitou: 7669/3863

Light Regiments
Picardie: 6360
Maine: 6629

Fury
Zeeland Cav Command: 6409

Further, to see to the adequate defense of our realm, the abovementioned regiments will be placed thusly:

Poitou Regiment - posted to Poitou
Zeeland Cav Command - posted to Lyonnais
Lorraine Regiment - posted to Nivernais
Artois Regiment - posted to Flandern
Picardie Regiment - posted to Caux
Main Regiment - posted to Maine

In looking the latest map of our Kingdom, I think you will agree that this arrangement of our troops adequately meets our nation's defensive needs.



-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

oh yeah...and sometime during all that, rebel-held Limousin defected to our banner!

-=Vel=-