Aaarrrggghhh!!!

[Steve Clark]

Oh, I think, at lease subconciously, we are still looking for the next Holy Grail (after Civ2) and knew that EU would come close (it does, imo). We're maybe envious of those that can play Combat Mission (or any other title) non-stop since last summer, or perhaps a better example, all of the MMORPG games that consumes alot of time for some folks. Instead, us strategy gamers bounce back and forth between promising titles and still not having any of them quite match the fun and strategies and customization of a 6 year old game!

EU is the best grand strategy game since Civ2, but it is not as good as Civ2, or even the promise of Civ3.

[Kyle]

Well, I'll say right here and now that Civ2 is boring to play after EU.


Is it better than Civ2? I don't know, if I'm still playing it in four or five years, yes it is.


But over the past two weeks and right now, I'd rather play EU than Civ2.

[Kyle]

quote: 96 MBs, and a game such as EU should have no problems running on that much RAM .

Depends, what else do you have running? Windows alone can take up half of that, not to mention any background/systray programs.


Not to mention that the game has a lot of animated pieces as well as keeping track of close to 100 different nations. And those nations are actually doing things, wars, exploration, building armies, improving infrastructure, etc.

[yin26]

john,

Doesn't this sound like giving up?

quote: Hmmm, I should play EU again, but damned memory hogging program

quote: The 'hook' is a problem.

Sounds like somebody has walked away from the game. About the only positive I've read from Imran lately is:

quote: Hell, I'll still play the game now and again, and this forum will still get its posts.

Contrast that with:

quote: Hey, do you think for my location, I should put 'Europa Universalis Pusher'?

Huh? Awfully quick thaw there...bought the hype and then actually played the game a few days, I guess. No big deal, mind you. We've all bought into the hype of a game, really wanted it to be the be-all and end-all of TBS games, only to get a day or two in and realize something is seriously wrong.

Is that the problem here? Are there serious problems with EU the deeper you get? If so, would you please explain some. Not being able to see your units on the politcal screen (at least remove the damned water-mark beneath the ships!) seems less than brilliant...as does the hidden religion screen. Sounds like a headache so far...
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited March 11, 2001).]

[Par4]

Yin,

Um TBS game??

[Steve Clark]

John-SJ, I just read the additional posts in your EU Forum thread and would like to make some comments here instead. It does appear that your style of gaming is very similar to mine. (I should have remembered that from our CM discussions awhile back.) I, too, am a very meticulous gamer, to the point that I don't play a strategy unless I can keep volumns of very detailed logs (to me, that's half of the fun of playing). But there's something about EU I can't put my finger on. I played 2 more hours last night as Russia in GC (advancing at my typically slow rate) and when I got done, I saw that I'm in the year 1495. This was after 2 hours the previous night analyzing and logging EVERYTHING at the beginning and playing the first year. Like I said above, it's not the UI or the manual or anything like that, everything works fine for me. But what is it? Does it really have to do with the 'Fun Factor'? I don't know. What I do know is that every game of Civ2 is fun for me (and still is unless I play one of the 1000+ units war scenarios). I haven't felt that way about EU yet, it's still more of a chore. I think as folks have said, this is the hard part. I suspect that one day soon, EU will be one of our most favorite games to play.

[yin26]

Do you mean the acronym? TBS = Turn-based strategy. I assume you know that, however, so you must mean the other thing...

Ah, yes. EU is supposedly RTS (real-time strategy)? As I understand it, though, it's essentional turn-based (using pause button a lot)? It' somewhat hard to tell based on some of the feedback.

[Kyle]

It's real time in that the clock is always moving forward.


You can issue orders to troops, begin construction of various things, but nothing will actually happen until you unpause the game.

[John-SJ]

IMO, Europa Universalis is a TBS game that happens to have a clock controlled end turn function.

One important distinction between RTS and TBS games is the way movement is handled. Suppose you have two units, one in province A and the other in B. In an RTS game if you move the A unit into B and the B unit into A the tow units will meet somewhere in the middle. If you do this in a TBS game the units make quantum jumps from A to B and B to A. They do not meet in the middle. EU follows the TBS model.

I don't want to scare anyone away from EU because I think it has a lot of potential and it's obvious from reading the EU forum that a lot of people are really loving this game but the last game that I recall that tried the "clock controlled turn counter hiding a TBS game inside an RTS shell" trick was Star Wars Rebellion.

John-SJ

[This message has been edited by John-SJ (edited March 12, 2001).]

[yin26]

Wow...while I suppose I can tell myself "The border was wide, and the troops never saw each other" that doesn't seem comforting. John, if you care to share more of these gems in an e-mail, I'd be glad to hear before I buy or trade for this game.

[Kyle]

quote: I don't want to scare anyone away from EU because I think it has a lot of potential and it's obvious from reading the EU forum that a lot of people are really loving this game but the last game that I recall that tried the "clock controlled turn counter hiding a TBS game inside an RTS shell" trick was Star Wars Rebellion.

Exactly, and Rebellion was a great game.

[Steve Clark]

You guys forget Railroad Tycoon II, which I find matches the RTS/TBS mechanics of EU very closely.

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: If I'm not mistaken, you were the band-leader of trying to get this forum. Also, and again I might be mistaken, you were squealing like a little school-girl: "Imran has EU in his grubby little hands" or some such thing

You obviously didn't read the thread I put up. Fine, we all know Yin reads what he wants and disregards the 'truth'. Let me post the first post I wrote to get the forum:

quote: www.europa-universalis.com As you've probably noticed there have been a lot of activity on the various EU threads. I was wondering if perhaps a forum for it under the "Alt. Civs/Other Civs" heading could be started. It definetly is an Alternate Civ when you look at it. It is basically what some of us have asked for Civ. A certain time period with heavily detailed trade and diplomacy. Just a suggestion...

Oh, yeah... that is saying how it is the BEST STRATEGY GAME EVER. Get a clue.

quote: Sounds like somebody has walked away from the game.

Until the next patch, yeah. I know plenty of people that did this with SMAC, but then after the patch was released they played a looong time. Did those people give up on the game?

All in all, EU IS the best strategy game than Civ2. It is better than SMAC, or CtP, or CtP2, or Moo2, or anything else from the strategy genre. It just isn't better than Civ. And, I'm waiting for the next patch...

*shakes head*
Typical Yin, master of the histrionics.

[yin26]

Ah, poor Imran...

You cried for this forum. Don't hide the fact. In fact, I think this forum is a good idea.

O.K., you never said EU is the best strategy game ever. But you think its better than Civ2, right? I guess that explains your jumping up and down like a little girl a few days ago...

And yet, "The hook is a problem" in this "memory hog" game which you won't play until its patched. Yep, that sounds better than Civ2 for sure!

Go figure. Imran doesn't make sense again.

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: You cried for this forum. Don't hide the fact.

*yawn* As we say in the OT, where's the proof? Simply because you think so, makes it right? Nah uh.... this isn't the Civ3 forum. We don't accept your word because your are the almighty Yin.

--

quote: But you think its better than Civ2, right?

And in the post RIGHT ABOVE!

quote: It just isn't better than Civ.

Learn to read, Yin, then come back and say something, k?

--

edit: On the concept of proof... prove that I was "jumping up and down like a little girl a few days ago".

Lying will never make you respected around here, Yin. You should have learned that by now.
[This message has been edited by Imran Siddiqui (edited March 12, 2001).]