Scotland cooperative game thread

[ravagon]

to everything so far.

3 Q's for your consideration my liege.


(1) The, er, soothsayer of the Northern highlands has had a revelation that a vast trading, erm, centre, will open soon (read sometime in the next century or so - I think she was using a haggis that'd passed its used-by date ) in the province of Anglia but she is unsure whether or not this will happen if Anglia is under the Scottish/British banner as opposed to the English.
[In other words I haven't read the exact wording of the events file. ]

(2) If you do become Britain won't your capital move to Anglia (thereby wasting half of the added income you get from the fine arts academy in Lothian)?
Our deepest regrets at not bringing this to your attention sooner - more haggis-related problems no doubt.

(3) At a point, far in the distant future, the vastness of the Portugese wealth is destined to fall under the British Banner. It will not do so for the Scotts.


Tis thy destiny to become something greater but the question of whether the time is right - uncertain this is.

[Velociryx]

Hiya Rav! I am uncertain as to whether or not the Scots can become England (I have not peeked into the event file), so I'm playing it safe and plan to "cheat" a bit (knowing what the future holds in-game), and wait till they get the CoT and Royal Shipyard before approaching them re: Annexation. The good thing about that is we keep the full measure of the income of the Fine Arts Center, and will (eventually) get the CoT and free ShipYard....the bad thing of course, is we are denied all of England's (considerable) leadership and talent....

What say you, regarding Scotland's future directions? And thoughts on how we can keep mighty France from simply devouring us whole?

I'm off to do a bit more playing, and will report back with an update!

-=Vel=-
PS: And keep those soothsayers well supplied with Haggis-past-its-prime....it spawns extremely good advice!

[ravagon]

Mmmmm... I was under the impression that any of England, Scotland or Ireland could become GB after uniting England with at least one of the others?
Can't quite think where this came from though so it may not be entirely correct.

A bit of an aside; I had a rather nasty introduction into the perils of having vassals a couple of nights ago.
Playing as the Lion of Venice I vassalised Tuscanny and the Papal States during a war and then had several allies declare war on one of them just as I was about to click on another popup event.
Ended up accidentally joining Austria in a war against a vassal. A -6 stability hit for that one. Reload time.

Re: France - I doubt its quite as bad as you think just yet. They generally seem to be at war with somebody more often than not and as long as you can keep your allies on side and a good few attack groups ready to invade several French provinces at once (and stay away from their heavy armies!) you should be safe enough.
One thing though, relationships just seem to keep going down (the CB shield provinces?).
I formed an alliance with Austria at the beginning of the game and it just kept going south no matter what.
Its been on -200 for almost a century now.

[Velociryx]

The outcome of this latest war with once-mighty England was never in doubt. Totally defenseless when we declared against them, we swept across the border so quickly that they barely had time to react. Only 1,000 English Infantry were recruited to stand against us during the war, and these were killed without a single loss of Scottish life.

In the meantime, our Iberian allies crossed the border into Aragon and kept them so completely overwhelmed that they could not even think to send any troops to attempt a landing in Scotland in defense of their English friends.

In short, it was a complete and utter route, and when we had conquered all three English territories, we demanded the full measure of their treasury and their subjugation.

This peace was signed April 17, 1468, and immediately thereafter, our immensely gifted leader set about the business of repairing relations with both Ireland and England.

Once we had convinced them that it was in their own best interests to serve as junior members of the Commonwealth of Greater Scotland, we said friendly goodbyes to our ever-faithful Iberian allies and forged a new alliance with Ireland and England....(stab dropped one point for leaving the Portugese alliance, but with our relations with both nations hovering in the 190's, there was never any concern that they would attack us for breaking our bond with them).

And so, the stage was set to leave the Iberians, but before we could accomplish that goal in fact...before we could turn it into more than a lofty ideal, we had a truly daunting diplomatic task ahead of us. More than a century's worth of hate existed between our three nations, and it would not be easily undone.

Further, although we were a rising star of a nation, we were a long way from the vast riches of France or Castile...a long way indeed....

1469

An important year for one reason...that being that our good King James took action against the power of the nobles, and giving more rights to the common man (aristoc -1) - this saw solid gains for us in economic terms (both production and trade effie rise to 41%)

Some military re-organization as well, as we divide our military into three battle-ready regiments, posted thusly:

Wessex: 6k/4k
Bretagne: 6k/5k
Armor: 6k/5k

(infantry/cav)

(we stripped out all the weak elements and rounded the numbers exactly thus)

The only other noteworthy event was the establishment of Cantonments in Munster (manpower +1)

1470
Our economy is bustling, and we see a net gain of 63d for the year (income - one year's expenses)

Our stability opens at +1, rising to +2 during the second half of the year, and by June, we have increased relations with our two vassals to the point where we feel it is time to say goodbye to the Iberians formally, forging our own alliance with England and Eire.

It begins!

If there is a low-point to the year, it comes in November, with the revelation of corruption amongst some high ranking members of the King's Court, and we are forced to spend heavily for information vital to rooting out the corrupt members of the King's Council. (stab back to zero)

1471

Our economy gives us a healthy 26.7d per month --> 16.3 from taxation and 10.4 from the production of goods. Sadly, our focus on back-to-back wars with Brittany, Eire, and England have caused a total reversal of fortune for us in Europe's thriving marketplaces and all our merchants were run out of business. We shall have to begin the daunting task of building a global (or at least regional) trade network anew.

Further, we do more to streamline our three battle-ready garrisons, reducing their force totals to 5k/4k each, bringing us to a standing army of exactly 27k, which is our maximum normal support amount. This drops monthly military expenditures from 4.2 to 2.5, which is quite a boon! (so long as we remain at peace)

In September, our most important Royal Marriage (France) expires, and we are quick to renew it. With a RM in place, and a treaty of military access, they will have to eat an extra -2 stability hit if they attack us, which might make them think twice about the matter.

What we need now, is a reciprocal arrangement that would allow Scottish troops to cross through their territory...oh the vistas that might open up! Nonetheless, it is seen as too expensive a proposition to attempt, as our relations are none-too-good with the French, even now.

1472

A relatively quiet year, marked most notably by continued Good Government Policies, a return of national stability (+3), and sufficient gifts to our allies and vassals that they are both regarded as the closest of friends (+200). At this point, a letter a year should be sufficient to maintain steadfastly good relations with both! And further, our allies are putting the money we've been showering them with to good use! The Army of Ulster is rebuilt, and England is covered with more than 40k troops! Just LET the French try to eat through THAT! We might not have many forces of our own, but with strong allies and a relatively confined area to defend, methinks that even mighty France would have difficulty challenging us on our island home!

Ahhh, the perfection of our plan! Security thanks to our new vassals and allies....'tis a beautiful sight.

July - renew the Royal Marriage with Austria, to keep abrest of the comings and goings in Central Europe.

1473

Another splendid year for us! Our economy grows to a robust 29.3 per month, with 18.8 from taxation and 10.5 in goods production! Net yearly gain is 118d added to our treasury, and we feel wealthy indeed! Scotland has never HAD it so good, and we owe it all to King James!

In March, despite the good economic climate, the finicky merchants express their displeasure (trade investment -600! OUCH), but this is at least somewhat countered by the fact that in November, the King signs papers allowing for the creation of a Monopoly Company, which adds another 100d to our treasury....sorely needed, having spent vast sums to improve relations with our vassals.

1474

Ever-mindful of our future position on the world stage, our King gives us a new goal, that each year, one new warship be commissioned until we have a fleet worthy of our nation. No one thinks to ask our King exactly what number that might be, but it does not matter, for all the good that has flowed Scotland's way since his corronation, his plan recieves near-unanimous support...if the King wants a navy, he shall have it, and so, a new warship is commissioned in Armor.

October - the King ignores the pleas of unhappy clergy, denting our otherwise rock-steady stabilty.

1475
Stability at +2, and 274d in our national treasury, and we now fall into a comfortable pattern....

Letters to our vassals each January, a new warship, and the rest of our funds used to send additional colonists to our Irish holdings, increasing their population bases (with a focus on sparsely populated Meath).

We also begin using some of our annual income to send merchants out tentatively to test the waters and see if we can re-establish the beginnings of a trade network.

This basic pattern continues on for the next several years, until 1479, which opens to find us at +3 stability, 181d in our treasury, and a monthly income of 30.8 --> 19.0 in taxation, 10.5 in goods production, and 1.3 in monthly trade balances. Our efforts might not be growing us to gargantuan proportions, but we ARE seeing steady gains, and that is the important thing!

During this year, the King orders what will be our last warship for the time being (upon its completion, this will give us 10 warships and 5 galleys....not a huge fleet, but a solid one, well-capable of defending itself).

The King also take the opportunity in 1479 to take further power from the Aristocracy (slider adj: Aristoc -1), which sees further gains for us, economically (production effie 42%, trade effie, 43%)

1479 would, however, be the last truly good year that graced Scotland for quite some time, for in 1480 (October 8th, to be precise), Duke Charles of Burgundy levied a diplomatic insult straight at our noble King! Given that Charles had something we wanted (the Gaelic land of Morbihan), this was seen as the perfect opportunity to take it from him.

Little did we know how truly daunting that task would be.....

[Velociryx]

Indeed...if you control a province that they have a CB shield on, there's no combination of diplomatic niceties that will prevent the relationship from deteriorating...as I discovered with Ireland and England! They both just kept dropping (cos I had land they had shields on)...which of course required CONSTANT attention! ARGH!!!!!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Our plan for Burgundy is relatively simple and straightforward. Having heard about the size and emminance of the Burgundian army (ie - having played Lorraine a bunch, I freakin' KNOW how they build troops!), we opt to keep this battle primarily relagated to the high seas, in the hope that our own fleet is comparably sized or larger to the Burgundians....if we can win a sufficient number of naval battles against them (and capture Morbihan), we can demand that Gaelic province in peace and will at last have realized our goal of having all Gaelic provinces under our control (indirect control, in the case of Ulster, but control nonetheless!)

Our battle regiments on the mainland are more than sufficient to the task of taking Morbihan, especially as the Burgundians have no force posted there to defend it....it should be a cakewalk....in, grab one province, win some naval battles, and out....

And so, to that end, our fleet is put on full alert, war is declared on the day the insult occured, and we invade Morbihan, with the fleet ordered to the Straits of Dover to go hunting.

On December 3rd, we get our wish, and our fleet (10/5/0) encounters 8 Burgundian warships.

Sadly, we would be outmaneuvered in this engagement, losing one galley, and forced to retreat to port in dissaray.

This should have told us that the war would not go according to plan, but we were so focused on the goal of Gaelic unity that we paid that omen no heed....much to our misfortune....

[Velociryx]

Having suffered an ignoble defeat at the hands of the Burgundian navy, we retreat to Dover to lick our wounds and recover our confidence, in 1481 we strike out twice more hunting for the Burgundian fleet, finding them both times, and both times, despite having superior numbers and an equal level of technology, our fleets are simply outclassed and out-maneuvered. Two more stinging defeats then (no additional shipping losses).

So that by mid-year, the King calls for the construction of an additional 5 Warships and a galley to replace the one lost in battle. If our current fleet size cannot get the job done, then perhaps applying MORE firepower to the equation is the answer, and though it strains the treasury to its limits, the King gets his wish, and Scotland's fleet increases in it's size again.

By March, our new ships are at the ready, and we again go hunting....sadly, it's a sub-hunt...there is no reliable way to tell where the main Burgundian fleet IS, and so for months we prowl to no avail....it isn't until late year 1483 that we catch a middling-sized Burgundian Fleet in the Irish Sea and that has been pasted by the Irish fleet and is still recovering themselves that we find any evidence of Burgundian ships, and this gives us our first victory on the high seas! (we lose a galley, and they lose nothing, but it IS a victory!), and with that victory, we set off in pursuit of the battered fleet (4 warships and 8 transports) to keep punishing them! In the meantime, Morbihan has long-since been captured (having fallen in August of 1481)...so...the army has done their part...now it remains for the navy to do theirs, and our war continues....

[Velociryx]

By 1482, having seen the lackluster performance of our naval squadrons against the numerically inferior Burgundians, King James begins exploring other options to gain us the province of Morbihan, and although it is dreadfully expensive, he begins regular communications with the King of France, bending his ear and slowly thawing relations to +80, whereupon we ask for, and gain military access through French lands. That accomplished, and HUNDREDS (perhaps more than a thousand) ducats later, our two regiments assigned to the mainland of Europe strike out across France to assess troop strength in the Burgundian capitol of Bourgogne and Compte, in hopes that these are easy pickings and we can gain a quicker victory than waiting for our navy to begin to perform.

The news is....not heartening....not heartening at all, and STILL our focus remains squarely on gaining Morbihan and uniting the Gaelic peoples! Despite the difficulty with the task, it has, at this point, become a matter of honor. We MUST do this!!!

[Velociryx]

Having won our first engagement against Burgundy on the high seas, the next several come in rapid succession as we follow their battered squadron and pound them relentlessly....however, they give us the slip in 1484 and retire to port for quite some time....if there are any Burgundian fleets out trolling, we do not run across them, and so the war grinds on, with war exhaustion beginning to creep higher, and restless rumblings at home about how long this war will take.

And yet, we are STILL so totally focused on the goal of uniting the Gaelic peoples that even these signs go unnoticed.

Folly...pure folly.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Velociryx
especially as the Burgundians have no force posted there to defend it....it should be a cakewalk....in, grab one province, win some naval battles, and out....

This would be the same Burgundy that has 47k men in Flanders and another 23k in Geldre? That is the Burgundy we're talking about isn't it sire?

*Starts edging towards the door*

[Edit: Holy cow - Now England has 50k men under arms as well? Better hope they don't take it upon themselves to break that vassalship ... ]

[Velociryx]

In the early part of 1485, the Burgundian Duke offers an abject apology and a large (250d) sum of money for his insult against our King, but this offer is steadfastly refused. The King will accept NOTHING LESS than Morbihan, and it is on this point that our negotiations with Burgundy break down, as they are unwilling to part with ANY Burgundian territory, and go so far as to dare us to try and take anything besides undefended Morbihan.

And so, in frustration and desperation, having utterly destroyed the Burgundian fleet, and on seeing that the Burgundians are not interested in building more, and still will not part with their province, the King orders vast conscriptions, on par with the force we had when we settled the matter of Ulster, and commands the fleet to make a landing at Holland. Once more we shall try to use terrain to negate the numerical advantage of our enemies....nonetheless, this appears to be a fool's errand....the army of Burgundy is so vast, and we cannot hope to long support a comparably sized force. Add to that their superior technology, and the odds against us seem vast indeed.

But the will of the King held sway, and vast legions of mercenaries were hired to press our claim of Morbihan, by invading Holland despite the overwhelming force the Burgundians could bring to bear.

[Velociryx]

The same, brother Rav... That same Burgundy who has ~4x our army....the same Burgundy with that #@#$ leader, Phillip (thankfully he was dead by the time we invaded)

Fortunately however, we have one advantage....the attack force will have to cross two rivers to reach us, suffer attrition damage on the march and give us the river and the defensive terrain advantage....what remains to be seen is if that will be sufficient to allow us to carry the day....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

With full minting of coin, war taxes raised at every turn, and a loan floated, we continue pouring mercenaries and scottish-trained troops into our battle line at Holland, and even go so far as to break off a segment to invade Geldre as well, when the Burgundians consolidate their forces in Flandres, seeminly shocked that we would take them up on their dare of invasion.

Twice they send piecemeal forces across the river to attack the siege group of Holland, and twice we beat these small (7k and 11k) attack forces back.

Thankfully, the main body of the Burgundian army seems....confused and uncertain what to do.

Our report is that they recieved numerous, often conflicting orders, and spent more than a year's time marching between Flandres and Zeeland, and this gave us time to do our work....nonetheless, with the threat of a massive incursion into Holland looming large, we had no choice but to maintain full pay for our troops, despite the vast expense of fielding so large a force for this extended period.

Finally, in September of 1487, the worst happens, and the Burgundians mount a significant attack on Holland....our forces brace for the very worst sort of fighting imaginable, and in the end, they carry the day, but are so shattered by the battle that they cannot even maintain the siege.

Nearly penniless, our only option is to abandon our position in Geldre and consolidate in Holland, which we readily do. (our force was reduced to less than 4k, while the Burgundian force was whittled to ~6k)...didn't take careful notes...was too scared to let my eyes leave the screen!

[ravagon]

* Makes noises about biting off, chewing, and the Flanders COT having a very large manpower recruiting base *


I fear the moral of this story may turn out to be something like "An apology and 250D is better than the apology and a kick in the teeth".

I'd keep that navy on hand for an evac if I were you.

[Velociryx]

This was the battle, however, that turned the tide.

With the dawning of 1488, we were able to recruit another 6k infantry and add them to Holland's siege crew (bringing us once more to nearly 20k), and never again did the Burgundians attempt a river crossing against us.

Holland's walls proved stubborn, however, and that siege would not conclude for another whole year (holland finally falling to us, November of 1488), and when the battleground that was Holland finally fell to our battered, exhausted troops, the Duke of Burgundy offered us both Holland and Morbihan for peace.

We only wanted Morbihan, and tried to stress this point, but the Duke would hear nothing of it....having been shamed and humiliated on that ground, he INSISTED that we take it from him....so....we did.

Ten years of fightinng. Ten years of exhausting, grueling battle. Fending off the odd rebellion (there were perhaps ten, but I did not go into much detail about them, because they were crushed by our merc forces before being shipped out...with varying degrees of success).

It was folly, wasteful, expensive, and totally not worth what we had to pay to gain victory, but in the end, our King had his way, and all Gaelic peoples were under Scottish control.

Many more such "victories" though will surely be our nation's undoing....we MUST be mindful to never again allow one singular objective to blind us to the realities we face...this fight should NEVER have gone on as long as it did, and the failing to the Scottish people is entirely my own....