Panzer Elite vs. Combat Mission!

[klesh]

What is to follow is the continuation of a PM conversation about 2 WWII tank sims/games. People might want to see or hear this, so we'll continue in public. Plus, we get to post screenies .







[quote]
fairline wrote on 01-02-2003 03:30:

Panzer Elite, of course! Fired up my copy and realised it does look a bit like CM. It's the best tank sim out there and surely due for an upgrade - I seem to remember the designers were dropped by the game publishers or something like that?[quote]

Ah yes, this is the long story part. Originally the game was published under the company Psygnosis. This might be the version you own. I bought it years ago in the bargain bin for $20 US. A great deal! Psygnosis eventually went belly up, and was bought out by Sony, who proceeded to sit on it. Only the original Psygnosis compies floated around for awhile, some selling on eBay for $100+.

All this time many many mods have been made, including your PEDG. All of these are very well done, well enough that when a new company was created (JoWood) after the rights for PE was bought back from Sony, they re-released PE with a Bonus disk including several of the community mods! There is a great Monty vs. Rommel Mod, a Britpak (which changes all Ami tanks for Brit tanks), my favourite Ostpak which has graphic changes beyond compare, and many beand new scenario all about 50x better than the regular game's.

I haven't had it on my HD for a couple of years but I remember there was this great mod pack in progress (Panzer Elite Development Group or some such) which was in the process of replacing everything with British units c. 1944. I waited for about 6 months but only one scenario appeared.

I have tried to do some work for this community, but let me tell you. Take what you'd spend on a civ scenario, times 10, and you get about 1/5 of a PE scenario. They take awhile.

Hadn't realised there was still an active mod community - any top sites you can recommend?

Of course. The main forum for the game is:

http://www.wingssimulations.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi

Now, I am a big fan particularly of the Ostpak team. They are pretty much the most prolific and the most professional of them, friendly guys too. Their site (with a small forum too) can be found at: http://www.derkampfpanzer.de/

You can see their Ostpak series, with the 20 something scenarios they've got out now.


I will attatch some pictures from a few of my Ostpak games...

If you liked the close combat series you'll love CM - its basically a 3D version. Its published by Battlefront, who sell it through mail order:

http://www.battlefront.com/index.htm

The graphics out of the box are pretty good, but there are some exceptional mods available:

http://www.combatmission.com/mods/mods.asp

You won't be dissappointed if you buy it!

Cool, I'll check it out. Throw some screenies from your games my way! I am really interested.

Here are soime screenies of PE. I'll talk about each mod etc.

This is the start of the Ostpak training mission. Note the barbed wire, it is 2d because it isnt really supported in the game, but this is a mod feature. Same goes for the infantry around the pak88. The vanilla game has no inf manning the guns... Trees, houses, tank skins and models all community made here.

[klesh]

Here is a shot with the Monty vs. Rommel mod loaded. Again the 2d sprites for the infantry, But you rarely fight this close to them. I set it up for a screenie.

[klesh]

Here I can be seen lining up the panzers with another zug. Teaming up like this with the AI is very effective. Not many targets can withstand a 20 tank attack.

[klesh]

There is also a kickarse Mod by 2 German brothers. Lars and Eric Lenort. They made one that allows you to play at winter/ at night / and switch all the Ami tanks with Soviet. Its top shelf stuff for sure, but you can only play with this set on the Normandy set of maps. I'll see about getting a few of those...

-FMK.

[fairline]

Those mods look excellent, FMK. I particularly like the Monty vs Rommel graphics. Do you know if its part of the add-ons bundled with the special edition PE?

As for Combat Mission, while the graphics are similar the gameplay is somewhat different. Think Close Combat in 3D, with a novel turn-based order phase and real-time action phase. Its a must for any WW2 tank anorak - every tank, vehicle and gun fielded by the US, UK, Poland, Canada, Free French and Germans from 1944-45 is available, with variations in graphics for airborne forces, Heer, SS and Fallschirmjager.

Unlike PE setting up a scenario is quick - there's an excellent scenario editor. Pretty much every major battle has been simulated by the mod community:

http://ns9.super-hosts.com/~dragonlair.net/combatmission/

The only down side is that no campaign mode is available. Still, you can play battles ranging from platoon actions to full-on divisional strength encounters with variations in graphics for time, weather and even season.

Now for some screenies: standard zoom, US forces move in on Aachen

[klesh]

Wait a minute, these mods have a turn #? This isnt a realtime thing?

[fairline]

crap. I'll have another go:

[fairline]

German SS:

[fairline]

The zoom function allows you to overview the whole battlefield or zoom in on individual units. BTW, the infantry are 3D, unlike PE. Check out the Screaming Eagles patch on these 101st Airborne troops:

[klesh]

bah, realtime + action phases, sorry didnt get that. PE has a campaign mode, but its like Panzer Commanders in that it is linear. Nothing you do will effect the next scneario apart from if you've lost any tanks... your soldiers and armoured units are in your pool for the duration.

[fairline]

And the seasonal graphics: British 7th Armoured Cromwell, Winter 1944

[klesh]

I'm looking at the site now, looks really snazzy. The demo is too much for my 56k to handle, but I am tempted to go for it (60mb). How is the gameplay? PE is, as you know, very sim-like. Not arcadey at all. There are seetings to reduce the skills needed though.

What about in-game. Are there any airstrikes or artilley/ smoke barrages to be called in?

Here we have the PzKwIII's in the snow outside of Moscow, facing the Soviet winter offensive... a tough one indeed!.

-FMK.

[klesh]

Uh oh, I was really enjoying what I was reading, untill this:

SCOPE

Each turn is equal to 60 seconds of combat. Players give orders in a turn-based fashion, and then these orders are simultaneously executed for 60 seconds of "real time". Then the next orders phase begins. A typical scenario lasts about 20-40 turns, or 20-40 minutes of simulated combat but this can be adjusted by the player.

That much interruption would appear to break the immersiveness, no?

-FMK.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
bah, realtime + action phases, sorry didnt get that.

Yup - real time would be ok for the smaller platoon actions but when you're dealing with divisions there are hundreds of units to control. Basically, you set movement and firing commands for each unit ( individual tanks and squads of infantry) for the next 60 seconds. When you're done you move to the action phase and the commands are played out by both sides. Sounds kinda awkward, but it works well.

BTW, if you buy it, the first thing you should do is get rid of the standard terrain graphics (the grass is a horrible bright green). The best I've found for the Summer terrain are made by a guy named Magua.

http://www.combatmission.com/mods/grass.asp

[fairline]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
Uh oh, I was really enjoying what I was reading, untill this:



That much interruption would appear to break the immersiveness, no?

-FMK.

The thing to remember is that PE and CM are 2 very different beasts. They are both very accurate in terms of armour thickness, gun ranges etc, but PE is effectively a firt-person tank sim whereas CM is a tactical/ stategic game. I like both approaches - trust me, the turn-based thing works well; if it was wholly real-time it would be a nightmare to control. However, don't buy CM if you are after the same sense of 'being there' that PE gives you.

Airstrikes, artillery shoots, smoke, morale effects - all included in CM