Singleplayer/Multiplayer thoughts...

[aaglo]

Hi!

When the civ3 came out last year, a lot of people was dissapointed/angry because there was no MP included. There were threats about "not going to pay for MP-expansion" flying all around.

The other side of the coin.

Why do those people, who don't want to play MP, allways have to pay for that feature? In this sence the general gaming industry isn't fair.

So the ranting about no-MP-in-Civ3-makes-me-mad is quite silly actually.

Now, that was my opininon, what is yours?

[MariOne]

Hey!
SQUONK!
A Trick of the Tail quote!
I thought you were younger...
(and the horses and men were the King's, not yours...)

Re the topic....
well, one thing is a game coming out with MP feature included from the start,
and a different thing is paying the average market full-game price for the SP release, and then paying again the average market full-game price for the MP expansion (along with few minor items and ripped-off-from-the-net scenarios)

If you think that a game released with MP feature from the start would have initially costed less had it been published SP only, you "might" have a point.
I would imagine tho that the initial release price of a game is *not really* influenced by the availability of MP feature, but only by mere market considerations. Just wild guessing, I can't know for sure, of course.

[FrustratedPoet]

True MariOne, when Civ3 was released it cost £35 pounds. If it had included MP it would still have cost £35.

All new releases cost almost exactly the same amount of money whether they include MP or not.

[War4ever]

i feel your pain, i dl a warez of civ3 and burned it to disk....i then had someone buy me a copy of civ3 ptw for my birthday....so i have come out ahead.....

but still, to charge us twice for such a poor games bugs me as i have posted elsewhere in the forums.....

pirating all aside, charging twice in essence for sp sucks.....like you stated...and by buying you support the corporate swine....

but pirating is illegal so i don't reccommend a career in it

[Thrawn05]

The question should be:

"Why do gaming companies use MP as an exuse for replay value, and leaving SP in the dust?"


I'm frustrated as a poet ( ) when kickin' games come out, only to have really bad SP replay value. Using scripted events to the extrem just to tell a crummy story. And relying on MP to give it some replay value.

I used to play MP, but I soon saw that it doesn't work. There are three types of online gamers:

1: The Cheaters. They cracked the game as to give them uber abilities.

2: The Bullies. Though not really Cheaters, they use their skills to pick on newbies.

3: No Brains. These guys never learn from their mistakes. Always doing the same thing, never swaying. Although I admire their determination to nail me with a Rail Gun from the same spot, it becomes very very very very boreing really really really quick.

So to this end, I still think the AI is better. So far, these games have great SP replay value.

AvP:GE (Get the Avp launcher, and play as any specie on any level, and AvP Level Tweaker to add Jetpack and Grappling hook to all SP level to play on the ALIEN levels as well.)

Quake III/Team Arena
Civ (1,2,3)
Morrowind/Tribunal
Total Annihilation/CC

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Thrawn05

1: The Cheaters. They cracked the game as to give them uber abilities.

2: The Bullies. Though not really Cheaters, they use their skills to pick on newbies.

3: No Brains. These guys never learn from their mistakes. Always doing the same thing, never swaying. Although I admire their determination to nail me with a Rail Gun from the same spot, it becomes very very very very boreing really really really quick.

I agree with that, but you missed out the most important group:

4. Your Friends. Either from other places on the 'net (e.g. Apolyton) or from real life. These are the only people worth playing IMHO. If you have a group of friends who you can play with regularly then MP is amazing.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


I agree with that, but you missed out the most important group:

4. Your Friends. Either from other places on the 'net (e.g. Apolyton) or from real life. These are the only people worth playing IMHO. If you have a group of friends who you can play with regularly then MP is amazing.

Well, my prob there is that they are all consol fanatics. So I'm at a lost. Still, I get more fun from busting BOTs in Q3 then busting No Brainers on MP.

[aaglo]

Originally posted by MariOne
Hey!
SQUONK!
A Trick of the Tail quote!
I thought you were younger...
(and the horses and men were the King's, not yours...)

Hmmm... how does my age relate to my quote...

And in the end you missed the point... I am king... so... they're infact my horses... AmIOnANeverendingRoadHere?

[War4ever]

in this day and age, a game which has multiplayer aspirations, should be included in the origional release... pure and simple

[Mr. President]

I used to play WarCraft II with my best friend. I also like multi-player Nintendo games. Magic: the Gathering can also work with several people, provided they all play nice.

Other than that, multiplayer is useless and evil and I will have none of it in my house.

[DrSpike]

I'd like to come at this from a slightly different angle. Most games have MP capability, because it is expected these days........it makes another good thing to put on the box. But because companies know that the SP market dwarfs the MP market outside of a minority of games (usually FPS, some RTS) so they often leave the MP product not as polished as it might be. Now I am not just talking about civ3, though my point certainly applies there, but several others games I have bought recently.

In principle, I am with the guys who argue that there should be one release, and the expansions with MP are gimmicks to make more cash, but as someone who values MP a lot (more than the average gamer) I do begin to wonder whether paying separately might, in general, lead to better MP products. Don't ask me where civ3 fits in with that theory though.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Thrawn05

I used to play MP, but I soon saw that it doesn't work. There are three types of online gamers:

1: The Cheaters. They cracked the game as to give them uber abilities.

2: The Bullies. Though not really Cheaters, they use their skills to pick on newbies.

3: No Brains. These guys never learn from their mistakes. Always doing the same thing, never swaying. Although I admire their determination to nail me with a Rail Gun from the same spot, it becomes very very very very boreing really really really quick.

This is partly fair, but partly misleading. Due to the fact that it does contain some truth part of the cost of setting yourself up to play a MP game is in finding a circle of people to play with. This is usually possible however, and when MP works, man it kills SP on every issue.

[axi]

I never play MP. Should I get a discount?

[Urban Ranger]

I don't know why MP is expected these days. I don't get any MP with all these RPG's yet I didn't get any discounts.

I much rather they develop competent AIs that don't cheat - okay, cheat as little as possible - instead of tagging on MP.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by DrSpike
when MP works, man it kills SP on every issue.

"when "

That's the problem. MP NEVER works, and WILL never work. Ever.

Originally posted by DrSpike
so they often leave the MP product not as polished as it might be.

I'm hope you are actualy saying that MP is not polished while SP is? Because that is a total lie. Look at AvP2, they make a crummy SP experience, but polish up MP so as to add Replay value. And if you've read my posts, I've made mention that Replay value (via SP) is the most important to me when picking a game.

HOWEVER, that statement does hold some truth when you are dealing with total MP oriented games like Quake3. At least there the bots give me SP replay value (and GTKRadiant allows me to make my own levels ).