Hello and goodbye to Might and Magic IX

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Grumbold
I think it depends on the game. There was certainly a big debate about it in the run up to Civ III and I believe the 'want paper' crowd were clearly in the majority. For games where there are tech trees, skill progression charts, production costs etc I think a manual is invaluable. Imagine trying to play an RTS where you were alt-Tab'ing out every ten minutes to check something. You'd totally lose any sense of immersion or pace in the game. Its certainly disrupting my enjoyment of the RPG.

That's what tool-tips and built in help are for.


Only the most complex and detailed of descriptions need to be in a manual, and those are things that you can afford to alt-tab for. (or read before playing)

[Grumbold]

I think it depends on the game. There was certainly a big debate about it in the run up to Civ III and I believe the 'want paper' crowd were clearly in the majority. For games where there are tech trees, skill progression charts, production costs etc I think a manual is invaluable. Imagine trying to play an RTS where you were alt-Tab'ing out every ten minutes to check something. You'd totally lose any sense of immersion or pace in the game. Its certainly disrupting my enjoyment of the RPG.

The ability to be able to hit pause and read up some more details while sitting in the smallest room is another excellent advantage (and cheaper than buying a laptop!) I also like to get a head start by reading the manual on the bus or train home after purchasing so I'm primed to get going the minute the install is complete.

[ixnay]

A good manual is nice, but it's no big loss if it's a PDF. As long as the game is fine, I'm happy.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Haupt. Dietrich
The one thing I look forward to when purchasing a new game is reading a chunky manual.

The one thing I look forward to when purchasing a new game is ... playing the game (*gasp*). If the game is bad I'll take it back and get a refund, but who cares about the manual? Well, apparently quite a few people care about it ... c'est la vie.

[Cookie Monster]

I agree with you Grumbold. The one thing I look forward to when purchasing a new game is reading a chunky manual. If computer game companies are going to be cheap like this then I'll be returning a lot of games too then.

[Urban Ranger]

Yeah well, manuals will be getting thinner and dumber as time wears on.

[Sarxis]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

You can't read a pdf document on the crapper.

You know what's funny? I was just thinking, "Why don't people call it 'The Crapper' anymore?".

Seriously. You and me- we're in tune.


But I know what you mean Grumbold: it seems that more and more, publishers are getting cheap with manuals. For some games, I wonder why they even included one at all!

But thanx to the new phase of 'small box' publishing, you can pretty much kiss bulky, in-depth manuals good-bye.

[Grumbold]

I've been playing it, and its an ok RPG but nothing special. Using a FPS engine (lithtech) for a RPG has made it quite good graphically but no better than Gothic or the recent MMORPGs and less functional in other ways than the previous engine specifically written for the MM6-8 games. For a game where skill and spell choices are important I dont ever want to have to Alt-Tab to find out what skill ranks I need to train up to get something and there's no way I'm printing off all those pages at greater cost to me in paper, ink and printer wear for a totally unwieldy A4 loose leaf mess. If it grows on me tomorrow I may keep playing, but I'm still going to return it because I don't believe I should encourage publishers to cut corners like this unless the game is so simple a quick reference sheet will give you all the info you need. The US version got the printed manual so its just 3DO-Europe that's being cheap.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

You can't read a pdf document on the crapper.

and at least if the paper manual is no good you can wipe your arse with it while you're there.

[General Ludd]

Funny, I prefer manuals to come in a pdf (provided the game supports alt-tabing) or built-in format. It's much less wasteful, and as long as I have the game I will have the manual - no losing it under a pile of all my other unused manuals.



Besides, a game shouldn't really require a manual - all you need is some good tool-tips, and a pdf manual for miscellaneous things which aren't that important.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

You can't read a pdf document on the crapper.

A real disadvantage...

Unless you have a laptop, of course.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
what do you need from the manual anyway ... a list of the controls is vital, as is a run-down of the game concepts and a description of their implementation. what does the paper manual give you that the .pdf doesn't?

You can't read a pdf document on the crapper.

[FrustratedPoet]

but have you really not even played it yet? at least play it for an hour before you take it back, for all you know you could love it and you'll have forgotten all about the manual (or lack thereof) this time tomorrow.

anyway, maybe the developers spent all their time coding and balancing the game, ironing out bugs etc. etc. and didn't feel it was necessary to produce a huge manual.
what do you need from the manual anyway ... a list of the controls is vital, as is a run-down of the game concepts and a description of their implementation. what does the paper manual give you that the .pdf doesn't?

i hope this doesn't sound like a flame, because it isn't meant to be, but i really think you're over-reacting here.

btw, i haven't bought it or played it, so for all i know it could be total rubbish.

[Grumbold]

Well I can't tell you much about the game because it is going straight back to the shop for a refund and I haven't even completed the character generation yet. Why? The cheapskates have published a full price game with only a flimsy getting started pamphlet and the rest of the manual in .pdf format on the CD (UK edition, your milage may vary). If they're going to be cheap, so will I. I'll get my money back and pick it up for £9.99 in six months or so assuming nothing better is available.