Computer Role Playing Games: How would you design one?

[Buck Birdseed]

Re: Computer Role Playing Games: How would you design one?

My game, ideally, would be half-way between a classic, Square-style console RPG and a point 'n' click adventure game. A rigorous, undeviating plot where no "mistakes" except death can be made, strong, predefined characters with a linear (but possibly multipath) character progression, a single unambigous ending. The focus would squarely lie on character interaction, quirky, lateral-thinking puzzles and tactical action combat with as many ludicrous end bosses as possible.
Bascially, the boredom, repetition, stupid complicated rules, ill-written dialogue and fill-in-the-blanks characters that marr practically all CRPGs would be stripped away to be replaced with a lush, funny and easy-to-play world where you're unencumbered by numbers and statistics and skills and nonsense, and where the challenge lies mostly in knowing how to tackle puzzles and monsters correctly. A certain linearity is inevitable, but generally a mixture of on-the-rails sections (the whole first episode or so) and episodal areas with multiple, in-any-order-you-chose-or-partially-completable semi-linear quests chosable in any order and with monster difficulty determined by your current level and equipment is to be strived for.

[November Adam]

I would like to make a good western rpg, with loads of action, so it would have to be in a first person, or third person perspective. With all sorts of cutscenes and fun camera angles. eg: you are about to enter a gunfight, you have to get the shot of each other from between each others legs... gotta get the tumbleweed in there... etc.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Re: Re: Computer Role Playing Games: How would you design one?

Originally posted by Snapcase
My game, ideally, would be half-way between a classic, Square-style console RPG and a point 'n' click adventure game. A rigorous, undeviating plot where no "mistakes" except death can be made, strong, predefined characters with a linear (but possibly multipath) character progression, a single unambigous ending. The focus would squarely lie on character interaction, quirky, lateral-thinking puzzles and tactical action combat with as many ludicrous end bosses as possible.
Bascially, the boredom, repetition, stupid complicated rules, ill-written dialogue and fill-in-the-blanks characters that marr practically all CRPGs would be stripped away to be replaced with a lush, funny and easy-to-play world where you're unencumbered by numbers and statistics and skills and nonsense, and where the challenge lies mostly in knowing how to tackle puzzles and monsters correctly. A certain linearity is inevitable, but generally a mixture of on-the-rails sections (the whole first episode or so) and episodal areas with multiple, in-any-order-you-chose-or-partially-completable semi-linear quests chosable in any order and with monster difficulty determined by your current level and equipment is to be strived for.

That's an adventure game, not an RPG. Basically what you described would make all true RPGers bored (unless they were into Adventure games as well).

[Buck Birdseed]

So are you saying the Final Fantasy games, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, all the Zelda games, etc. are not RPGs then, Imran? I guess you're entitled to that opinion, but I personally consider those real CRPGs and the Ultima/Fallout/Forgotten Realms games pieces of lamentable waste of code.

[Imran Siddiqui]

CRPG's? Look at your list? All of those games are Console RPG's. And they are utter crap.

Role Playing? What is role playing about following some preset story?

The Fallout, Baldur's Gate, are the true CRPGs, and some of the best games ever made (I consider Baldur's Gate II the perfect game). Everything else pales by comparison... yes, even Civ.

[Chowlett]

Are there any good free or abandonware CRPG's I could have a crack at to get a feel for the genre?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hmmmm, not that I know of, offhand, but you can get Fallout 1 & 2 for $10 at most places (don't know how much in Britain).

[loinburger]

Chowlett: Yeah, Fallout I and II are great examples of CRPG's. If you're more interested in a fantasy type setting then Daggerfall ought to be fairly cheap by now, and Arena would be dirt cheap if you're able to find it. Same goes for Ultima IV.

[loinburger]

Snapcase: I'm quite partial to Zelda (particularly Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time), Final Fantasy (Five and Six in particular, but Four is also petty good), and Chrono Trigger (never played Chrono Cross). However, I've gotta agree with Imran here that these aren't exactly CRPG's, but are more of adventure games--they're all quite linear, notably in that you've got preset characters and very limited dialogue options, as well as a dearth of side quests. However, this doesn't make them bad by any means, particularly since they usually have far better stories and dialogue than true CRPG's (with Fallout II being a notable exception)--a direct result of their linearity.

Like I said, I enjoy these games and others like them; for instance, I'm planning on getting Final Fantasy X as soon as it comes out on PC (or as soon as I get a job and can afford a console). I just wouldn't call them CRPG's.

[loinburger]

Chowlett: Betrayal at Krondor might be abandonware at this point--I'm pretty sure it was free to download when Return to Krondor was released. Try searching around online for it; I'll let you know if I happen to come across anything on it. (I'd recommend against Return to Krondor; it's far too short to be particularly worthwhile).

[Chowlett]

It's available at The Underdogs, I'm downloading it now.

[General Ludd]

I wouldn't recomend Betrayal at Krondor if you are looking for a positive experience of cRPGs

[Buck Birdseed]

I always felt that so called "CRPGs" (non-MMO, that is) were immensely poor when compared to pen-and-paper variants. There is no way you can faithfully act out a hero that you have no real creative control over, and the role of the dungeon master is simulated not by a real open world but by making everything so sketchy that you can imagine anything into it. Consistently boring characters and duff dialogue does not help either.

I feel a console RPG comes much closer to the actual experience of "real" RPG by having a realistically low level of what a CRPG is able to simulate. Rather than allowing the player to create his or her own characters, with inevitably bland and formulaeic results (there is no scope for creating an interesting/quirky character in most CRPGs), the computer supplies a set of "stock" characters that are fully developed, thus allowing you to be someone interesting. Similarly, rather than having a free world which without the guiding hand and imagination of a DM to make even the most boring areas action packed is inevitably a mere empty husk, and NPCs that (again without a DM to role-play them) are forced to become boring just to allow the player an imagined "freedom", you'd have a more linear world and more fleshed-out (but less versatile) NPCs. Console-type RPGs do not try to be a real DM, because that's impossible, but instead try to capture the essence of the DM for a much more limited set of characters/objects/dialogues. Whereas almost all CRPGs end up spreading themselves too thin.

The one area where a computer game is near-equal to a p&p RPG is combat, and lo and behold, this is where console RPGs are fleshed out. The combat system of, say, FF IX, beats the pants off any CRPG in terms of complexity, strategy, and "heaviness". Even lighter fare, like Zelda, inevitably require exactly the kind of "find the weak spot" combat that makes pen&paper RPGs fun.

[Imran Siddiqui]

there is no scope for creating an interesting/quirky character in most CRPGs

Never played Fallout I see.

The combat system of, say, FF IX, beats the pants off any CRPG in terms of complexity, strategy, and "heaviness".

And never played the Baldur's Gate series either.

Stop being so contrarian . Everyone else on the thread knows what an CRPG is supposed to be. Try Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, The Elder Scrolls series.

[Moral Hazard]

Snapcase: Quick question what CRPGs have you played because there's a lot of stinkers out there.

Personally I'd recommend you try Planescape, if your an adventure fan I think you like it. It has an incredible story and It's not that long either.