Let's Make Our Own Game

[Fraze]

Hi Quinns,

I'd like to contribute to your project. I'm not sure how much I have to offer in terms of time or skill but I'd really like to see how and if the project can work.

I'm a programmer by profession but I've never worked on anything like this as I am mostly concerned with database systems and visual programming tools. But I'd like to at least see how a game could be developed, with sound a O-O design and C++, or whatever you are planning to use.

At the very least put me on the mailing list.

Cheers,
Fraze
[This message has been edited by Fraze (edited March 08, 2001).]

[Franses]

I sure would like to give it a try.

I once (long ago) started the design and coding of a Civ like game as a hobby. When I had it done for 1/10 or so (first rough playable version) Civ I was released. It looked so much like what I was building (and graphically so much better) that I stopped any further developments (quite frustrated of course)

I have a lot of management experience, have been a director of several companies and have my own advising company now. I more or less went on sabbatical and am starting new projects/companies now. But..... I also want to program. So, put me on the list as one of your programmers, quinns (if you want me, of course).

I do not like the idea of ICQ very much. Quite disturbing as others already mentioned. I prefer a forum to discuss the rough ideas, a site were we can work on documents together and download the latest versions (something like Visto.com?) and which also provides us with a project management tool. I suppose we do need direct communication from time to time. We should perhaps look for something like Internet telephony? Does anyone have any experience with that?

I notice that in this forum you are sometimes way into details while we do not have an overall plan, requirements, design etc. In my opinion we (or some of us) should concentrate on these things first/also. OK, I do know that the details are much more fun, so perhaps we should make some division. Several "threads" (not on Apolyton but on our own site?) for detailed subjects, a thread about the company structure, a thread on requirements etc.

The company structure you propose looks like fun to me. Details should be worked out though (in this separate thread) I am very curious which bank is lending us money on a project like this, as you suggest.

I am sure that we are in for a lot of problems and frustrations if we start this of. Sounds like a Civ game to me so, lets do it.

[quinns]

Keygen
Prince
Athens, Hellas (Greece)
Jan 2000 posted March 08, 2001 16:49

Damn Quinns, this is a fantastic idea!!!
I've been thinking for months on creating the story of a human history simulation, find some programers and make a company on your standards! A company with no offices, no working hours etc. But I wouldn't dare to present my idea at list for a year or so.
Two people with the same dream would be a great start Quinns.
I will totaly support you on this idea!
BTW if something good comes out from this story MarkG will certainly be proud of it and certainly won't close this thread yet as many many people might like your idea but would never visit the other games forum to find out about it.
So MarkG, don't ...yet .

Franses
Warlord
Netherlands
Aug 2000 posted March 08, 2001 17:00

I agree with Keygen, Mark. I would never have found it without this thread. So, please leave it for a while.
St Jon
Prince
BRIGHTON, UK
Aug 2000 posted March 08, 2001 17:19

Never having visited the 'Other Games' BB neither would I.
quinns
Prince
California, USA -- quinn2084@yahoo.com
Oct 2000 posted March 08, 2001 22:17

Well that's just great Keygen, Fraze, and Franses!
I'll put you all in the group. You can contribute as much or as little as you like. We well divide up any profits we may make dependant upon the number of hours applied to the company. (See the thread above for details on how this works if you're interested.)

Franses, we can use your skills immediately (if you have some time). Until we get structured better to vote, I have given you the chairmanship of the Administrative Council, (if you are willing), because you are the most qualified of the 11 of us so far. I think you will find The Viceroy (Francis) will be of some good assitance on the Administrative Council.

Take a look at how I proposed the "approved" hours and "applied" hours concept, and see what you can find wrong (or right) with it. Until we get a better idea of the participants, there will be an Administrative Council and a Production Council. I will oversee both Councils and contribute to both. The size of your Council will be up to you right now. We'll get some by-laws written up later, but in the meantime, part of the Administrative Council's duties will be to establish the structure of the company and form the by-laws. Keep track of the hours you spend on this. You have been "approved" for 20 hours of work, with 2 hours "applied" to you already.

Part of the Production Council's duties will be to "approve" hours to the different workers that are part of the team. The main function of the Production Council will be to produce games.
-------------
I copied the above posts from the CTP Multiplayer forum. There is a good group of people over there with some great ideas.

Looks like we have three new additions to the company... Keygen, Fraze, and Franses! Welcome!

Fraze, your programming skills will be valuable here I'm sure. And Keygen, aren't you a programmer? I would like to see us wearing some different hats in this venture, if possible. Programming will take up most of the hours, (I think) so that's a valuable skill here, but that doesn't mean we each can't sit in on a Historical Committee or Science Committee, etc. as well.


[This message has been edited by quinns (edited March 09, 2001).]

[Franses]

quinns, I asked for a programming job!!!

But... ok. I interpreted your order a bit wider and will make a first draft of a businessplan. I am a bit busy at the moment so it may take a couple of days. I will try to incorporate the ideas on this forum. The first version may well be a content definition only. I'll see while I go. After that Viceroy and others can help to fill in the blanks.

[Keygen]

Hi everyone.

No, I am not a programmer. I know a few about programing but I know the programing idea quit well and can learn fast.

But I would be better help on some other sections than programing. I am a professional tester and a big project like this that could be more complex than any civ type game ever released so far would certainly need testing. I could organize at list the testing process of the whole project.

I also have mentioned that I was thinging of the same idea for months maybe a year. I would like to participate to the way the company would work via internet. I could collaborate on this with Franses.

And the most important of all, a game story (outline) must be made before programing accually starts! Creating such a story I thing would be the best way to contibute to the whole idea as I belive that I can think of good ideas and make a very detailed analysis on this issue. I could think of many many aspects on this.

So far I belive that I could contibute on three areas and that would be my interest and suggestion. I can start this way and if my help is good I could continue.

I'll try to post some suggestions on these areas on the weekend.

[This message has been edited by Keygen (edited March 09, 2001).]

[quinns]

Alright Keygen! A professional tester is also extremely valuable for us all. And I agree with you 100% about a good story line, (this will be tough, though). Kip Allen (one of the team members) has written many published stories for "ghost" writers in the past. He will be a valuable asset in this regard, as well as your own contributions.

And Franses... There will be plenty of programming to do, in addition to your chairing the Administrative Council ... Don't worry! I hope the administrating runs smooth enough not to absorb a lot of your time. I will definitely help you in this capacity, (to my limited capacity, that is )

Steve Quinn
Quinn Simulations, LLC

[Franses]

All members should have received the first draft of the Businessplan as well as an invitation to a temperal Visto.com account. If you did not receive one of these feel free to contact me by mail. I hope my "suggestions" for commenting on the plan will work. Please, give it a try.

Franses

[Urban Ranger]

Here are some suggestions:

1. Don't try to make money from your project. The reason is a loosely organised body such as yours lack the organisation will, so to speak - to push a project to market.

2. Therefore, I suggest you take the Open Source Software approach. There are many advantages:

2a) You can leverage from existing OSS code, such as the freeciv project. All told, that's how Linux started, by leveraging from existing code.

2b) You can attract people from outside the Apolyton community. Not to say that we don't have good talents, but the fact is the more, the merrier. As a matter of fact you want as large a team as you can.

2c) You learn valuable skills

2d) You expose yourself to the world, which might lead you to unexpected employment

2e) When you lose interest in the project, you can pass it on to the next generation.

[Roman]

Hmm, Urban Ranger does have some good points here, especially since IMHO the money we would make from the project would be rather miniscule.

Back to the map discussion. Perhaps each discrete region could have more than one terrain type inside it. The productivity of the region would then depend on the perccentage composition of the region. Any comments?

[RonHiler]

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger on 03-10-2001 01:56 PM 2b) You can attract people from outside the Apolyton community. Not to say that we don't have good talents, but the fact is the more, the merrier. As a matter of fact you want as large a team as you can.

That's a myth, I'm afraid. The more is not always the merrier in the case of game programming, or any kind of programming. Please reference "The Mythical Man Month" by Frederick P. Brooks as evidence. There comes a point of diminishing returns where the effort of organizing the team overtakes the advantage of the extra team members. Of course, the optimum team size varies depending on what the project is and how well the responsibilities are segmented.

IMO, for a project like this, the right number of people is 6-10, for those intimately involved in the project from start to finish, with maybe twice that working on fringe elements (such as documentation) or temporary personell (for very specific tasks).

Ron

[Keygen]

Thanks Urban Ranger for your suggestions but I think it's a little early to jump into conclusions. We expect to get organized much better. Some of your suggestions are true but some others are just out of time. Let's first see our efforts and then you can throw your "arrows" .

[This message has been edited by Keygen (edited March 10, 2001).]

[quinns]

I agree with Ron and Keygen. And Roman... what is this "miniscule" remark? You pessimist, you! How do you know that we won't make any money off of this? Not that that's the main reason for most of us working on this project. Granted, many efforts produce zero dollars, but many efforts make good many as well. I'm going into this project, not as a hobby, but to make a high quality piece of work. If we make money from it, great. If not, so be it!

In regards to your suggestion, Roman, about using "percentages of terrain types in the regions"... Yes, I do like that approach. I was thinking something similar in general, but I haven't done much real thought on it yet.
[This message has been edited by quinns (edited March 11, 2001).]

[quinns]

Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:44:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Quinn | Block Address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: Quinns Simulations
To: costas_ctp@yahoo.com
CC: DarkKnight , Quinnjus , Roman , TheViceroy , Wittlich , Kip Allen , Fraze , Ken Hinds , Frans Middelkoop

Hello Keygen,

As far as I know the addresses are correct. I
kind of figured this was going to happen...
that's okay. Some people say that they are
willing to help, but then they can't, for
whatever reason. I'm glad that we have at least
four active members now in Visto. More will come
later, I'm sure.

Regards,

Steve Quinn
Quinn Simulations, LLC

--- Keygen wrote:
> I see posting in visto only by me, Franses,
> Quinns and Darkknight.
> Is there a problem? Can't find the site, can't
> join or something else maybe?
> Quinns, are the email addresses correct here?
> Can you verify it?

[The Viceroy]

Hi chaps ..

Just a quick note to say I have accepted the production chair ..

Ive been away for a few days, so had to read up on all the mails

OK .. think its time to start a resource list .. If everybody could mail me with skills/experience etc .. that would be great. As Quinny quite rightly pointed out, this can be any skills you have that you feel may be releavant to the game .. not just IT related ..

Most importantly, give me an idea of how much time you have .. in hours per week .. I know its only a rough indication, but its just to start looking at what resources we have available.

I was going to opt for a formatted resource sheet, but in the end, I though a nice layed out doc/mail will be good enough.

TA

Viceroy

------------------
"Wherever wood floats, you will find the British" . Napoleon

[quinns]

Quinny?

Well that's just great Viceroy! We are happy to have you on board in such an important position. I will send out an e-mail to all requesting to send a brief paragraph describing their best skills and interests.

Quinns, or Quinny, or Steve, or Quinn, "Just don't call me STEVIE!"