Shogun, Part II

[Urban Ranger]

There's another point I want to raise. The human player is automatically at a strategic disadvantage because he has to move first. Computer players get to react to his movies, meaning they have the initiative all the time.

This is big. In Starfleet Battles the ship that has initiative moves last but fires first. In Civilization (boardgame - no relation to Sid's classic) the player has initiative moves first and battles are resolved simultaneously.

[Youngsun]

First I had the same thought as yours but now I'm not so sure because I once experienced that AI actually removed 2 units from the province that I invaded. My guess is that the game may be run by instant move for everyone but plan first move later thus it all looks like AI moves later. When the enemy has 500 troops stationed somewhere doesn't mean there will be the same number of troops next turn because that figure is from previous turn which means you never know the how many exact number of troops will be there for this turn.

[Ramo]

youngsun:

Yep, those Yari Ashigaru are awesome.... They are so cheap too. Unfortunately, you need some pretty high honor Ashigaru if you want them to hold their ground (often, when it looks like you're winning, the f*cking ashigaru just bolt, and leave your archers unsupported ).....

I just mass produce them, and I can kill anything I want.

I'm starting a Hojo clan game now.

[Youngsun]

Numerical advantage and "stick together" principle are the key to use Ashigaru wisely.

If one of your units of Ashigaru begins to waver send your Taisho or other units next to them and they will stop wavering.

If you're not Oda buy couple of Yari samurai units first then buy Ashigaru to back up those Yari samurais.

quote: I just mass produce them, and I can kill anything I want.

I like what you said. That's the idea! Ramo
Mass-produce!
Stick together!!
Outnumber the enemy!!!
Flanking!!!Encirclement!!!!
Pursue the routed enemy until the hell at Ashigaru speed!!
Those are all the principles of master Ashigaru tactics.

[Urban Ranger]

Youngsun,

I have seen that too, but it's probably due to stupid AI instead of simultaneous moves. The computer players have a tendency of shuffling units around for some odd reason. Have you figured that out?

The reason which makes me suspicious of computer players moving after you is their uncanny ability to reinforce invaded provinces, most of the time at any rate.

By the way, is there any advantage of converting to Christianity, comparing to the possibilities of religious uprising?

[Youngsun]

quote: is there any advantage of converting to Christianity

For fun's sake "Yes". For winning tactic "No".

First of all, when the Portuguese traders come at your shore you may own half of Japan already thus making no sense of converting to Christianity.

Secondly, Warrior monks are far more important/valuable compared to what musketeers can do so I just wait until the Dutch traders come or fininsh the game with what I've got already.

But I believe when you are a Christian Daimyo and there is Christain uprisings in other regions you may share the spoils or possibly take the command of the Christian army.(This is just my guess. What does your manual tell you? I don't have a manual so )
[This message has been edited by Youngsun (edited July 16, 2000).]

[Youngsun]

Hmmm

[Urban Ranger]

The fine manual? It's smaller than A5 and is 50 pages thick, including credits. It doesn't have squat. I am sure the strategy guide will come out Any Day Now.

[klesh]

What's up fellas?

I just bought this a few days ago, and I have a terribly stupid question...

How do you get troops from your castles that aren't Generals? I can't amass a decent size army, because all my troops, as soon as they are moved out of the castle, are given the little gold star...

I'm sure I sound stupid, but I agree the manual is pure crapola.

Thanks

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

[Youngsun]

Field Marshal Klesh

quote: I can't amass a decent size army

I'm pretty sure now you know how to do it but just in case if you haven't found out here we go.

Just left-click one of your armies and hold until you drop the army onto another one and they will merge into new bigger army with a sound something like "kirik"??

I hope this one helps..

[klesh]

Thanks Youngsun,

I figured that out... but the units whose card displays a little gold star means they have a general (they have that extra honor and battles won info) and therefore can't be combined into an army led by another General. I indeed have heard that "kirik" sound when I add troops to armies. But I've only had two or three groups of archers and such that were allowed to merge. When one attempts to add a "goldstarGeneral" unit into another army, one gets a sound that certainly means "no-dice".

The largest army I could get going was like 340 guys, because I used all the non-starred units, mainly archers and Ashigarus. I had a ton of 60 men armies led by a general, but whenever I built a unit, it was made a leader and could not be combined.

My only thought would be that at this point all my units were being built in the original homecastle, the Capital if you will. I have castles in other provinces, but no spear or archery dojos yet. Perhaps the Capital province produces Generals, and the other produce the mainstay infantry?

Thanks,

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

[Youngsun]

quote: whenever I built a unit, it was made a leader and could not be combined.

I don't have any problem with combining armies unless I try to get more than 16 units into one army or 1960 men if I set the option as 120 men limit. I suspect you moved the taget army from or to other province before you combine it with new conscripts. Just stay at your home province then try the merging. This time you will have no problem I hope.

[klesh]

Yup, I was trying to combine after using the movement points. I'm all set now. Yeah, that was a dumb question. But I was just doing some of the historical battles just to get in the swing of things. I'm ok now.

I chose the Oda Clan for their cheap Ashigaru. But even with their honor bonus, if the fighting gets too much (even if they outnumber the enemy 3-1)they split on ya.
Listen to this too... My Diyamo is so on point. He is 11 and 0 in battles, is rank 4 I think, and he was even able to escape Ninja assasination!!! That's bad-arse!

I'm now the most advanced Clan in all of Japan, the awe of the entire populace.
Thanks,

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!

[Youngsun]

Glad to hear you're on the track now haha

When you deal with enemy Warrior monks, your archers provide valuable contribution since WMs' armours are quite light(easy kill)

Ashigaru honour 0 attack 0 defence -1
Ashigaru honour 1 attack 0 defence 0
Monk honour 0 attack 5 defence 2
Monk honour 1 attack 5 defence 3

When you consider this stats you now know how vulnerable Ashigarus are against WMs.
Even if your Ashigarus have honour 4 their attack bonus is mere 2 and defence 1(still no match to monks) Nice combination of archer & Ashigaru will make your army more balanced and strong especially against lightly armoured WMs or No-Dachis.

Enjoy the game

[Urban Ranger]

Trick of the day:

When attacking or defending on the battlefield, try to aim for the enemy taisho (general). He's with the unit that has a golden thingie instead of a normal flag. If he breaks you have practically win the battle. Unless, of course, the taisho happens to be the enemy daimyo protected by a bunch of nasty heavy cavalries. Then it gets rough

This can be done with a unit of warrior monk, yari cavalry, heavy cavalry, or yari samurai in a pinch. Calvalry or WM are the best because they can ususally catch up with the fleeing taisho and kill him :evil grin: