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Originally posted by Dissident
okay they weren't exactly forced, but it sounded more dramatic that way.
that just the sort of exagerration that undercuts the "anti-censorship" forces.
Look, if Take Two has a first amendment right to make any game they want, then folks who dont like it have a first amendment right to protest.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
A bit late, with the game having shipped many months ago.
Doesn't the X-Box version still have to ship?
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Re: Re: Re: GTA: Vice City forced to censor their game
Originally posted by Osweld
It was developed in Scotland, actually. I don't think they care much for american bibles.
And since when did 'protesting' equal censorship?
OK, magna Carta right, unwritten constitutional right, whatever.
And 1st amendment right to SELL it in the US.
When did protesting equal censorship - exactly my point - no censorship here.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by Rasputin
yep ever since i been playing it i have had desire to kill all haitians ......
maybe they could make a mod for you where it says to kill all aussies, instead.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GTA: Vice City forced to censor their game
Originally posted by Osweld
What do you call demanding the removal of certain things from the game?
if done by the government-, with the threat of sanctions - censorship
if done by private citizens - an exercise of their first amendment rights to protest.
If done by an elected official with no threat of sanctions - IE Mayor Bloomberg saying he doesnt like the game - a grey area about which disagreement is possible. (I am uncomfortable with elected officials going around getting too specific in their criticisms of cultural products, since it at least appears to erode the distinction i drew above - OTOH being elected doesnt mean losing the right to render opinions, and some use of the bully pulpit to set tone is worthwhile)
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GTA: Vice City forced to censor their game
Originally posted by Osweld
Censorship is censorship. Doesn't matter if it's some suit in a government office or a lobby group.
Yes it does matter - censorship is the USE OF FORCE to stop speech - whether its govt force or private force - IE if the protestors threw rocks into the windows of retailers selling the game that would be censorship. Were they - not that Ive heard.
Criticising a game is free expression - asking for it to be changed is free expression - you dont like that, then express yourself in the opposite direction.
Free expression IS NOT CENSORSHIP, its the opposite of censorship.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Its going to bite Take Two in the butt, because they've conceded to remove the offensive materials from future releases of the game, basically stating they were in the wrong in the first place.
But the protestors want more.
They should have stood their ground and said, "Hey, its just a game. Don't like it? Don't buy it!".
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GTA: Vice City forced to censor their game
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Criticising a game is free expression - asking for it to be changed is free expression - you dont like that, then express yourself in the opposite direction.
Free expression IS NOT CENSORSHIP, its the opposite of censorship.
Yeah, just critising. They where asking them to remove content. That's censorship. Censorship has nothign to do with force - it's about denying certain content to be shown. You dont have to break skulls for it to be done, they could of gone about it very politely, but it's still censorship.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GTA: Vice City forced to censor their game
Originally posted by Osweld
Yeah, just critising. They where asking them to remove content. That's censorship. Censorship has nothign to do with force - it's about denying certain content to be shown. You censorship.
Its request - thats all. A request is speech, under the first amendment. Take two didnt have to remove anything if they didnt want to. Its not a question of politeness, its a question of voluntariness. If some other developer CHOOSES not to make a game like this is that censorship - no its choice - if Take two decides to change the game - thats their choice. If they choose to do so at the request of someone who has nothing to wield against them but speech, thats part of life in a FREE society.
"dont have to break skulls for it to be done, they could of gone about it very politely, but it's still ________"
fill in blank - its still genocide against Haitians for example = the whole argument that censoring this i wrong depends on the distinction between SAYING something and doing something. Its ok to criticize Haitians, or even say that they should die - thats protected speech until you actually throw a rock at them - ditto for critizing a game, or speech within a game.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Censorship is censorship. Doesn't matter if it's some suit in a government office or a lobby group.
They where asking them to remove content. That's censorship. Censorship has nothign to do with force - it's about denying certain content to be shown. You dont have to break skulls for it to be done, they could of gone about it very politely, but it's still censorship.
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