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  • #16
    Maniac: A wage increase is not likely to hurt the economy - in fact, it is likely to help the economy since these workers will now have more money to funnel into real estate and commercial purchases and ventures. A uranium workers' strike will not have the far-reaching effects that an automobile workers' strike would, but it would still damage the economy, especially if uranium production plays a key role in it.
    CGN | a bunch of incoherent nonsense
    Chris Jericho: First-Ever Undisputed Champion of Professional Wrestling & God Incarnate
    Mystique & Aura: Appearing Nightly @ Yankee Stadium! | Red & Pewter Pride
    Head Coach/General Manager, Kyrandia Dragonhawks (2004 Apolyton Fantasy Football League Champions)

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    • #17
      Ok, considering that the Automobile industry is the only one I have in the Kingdom, I've decided to allow the workers a 20% wage increase, hoping that they will spend those money to buy new cars.

      Saluti
      "Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else.
      The trick is the doing something else."
      — Leonardo da Vinci
      "If God forbade drinking, would He have made wine so good?" - Cardinal Richelieu
      "In vino veritas" - Plinio il vecchio

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      • #18
        I've got the same problem as Maniac, and I've also got to deal with the issue of compulsory voting. I think I'm just going to give the Uranium workers their pay rise, but does anyone have any ideas for the voting issue? The choices are:

        1) Keep it voluntary (I'm leaning towards this one).

        2) Make it compulsory.

        3) Abolish elections altogether.

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        • #19
          Since the Commonwealth prides itself on human and civil rights, in your position, we would most likely leave elections voluntary.
          CGN | a bunch of incoherent nonsense
          Chris Jericho: First-Ever Undisputed Champion of Professional Wrestling & God Incarnate
          Mystique & Aura: Appearing Nightly @ Yankee Stadium! | Red & Pewter Pride
          Head Coach/General Manager, Kyrandia Dragonhawks (2004 Apolyton Fantasy Football League Champions)

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          • #20
            Since the Commonwealth prides itself on human and civil rights and duties, and wants to make sure the lower classes, who always vote less when elections aren't compulsory, are also represented correctly in the election results, in your position, we would most likely make elections compulsory.

            Oh btw, I'll give the miners their pay rise after all then.
            Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
            Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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            • #21
              The only problem with that is, what if none of the candidates are satisfactory? Then compulsory voting just gives legitimacy to elections that by rights it shouldn't.

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              • #22
                I had that issue, actually it was my very first one, I've decided to make it compulsory, and the results were that i lost some civil and political freedom.

                Therefore I suggest to keep it voluntary

                Saluti
                "Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else.
                The trick is the doing something else."
                — Leonardo da Vinci
                "If God forbade drinking, would He have made wine so good?" - Cardinal Richelieu
                "In vino veritas" - Plinio il vecchio

                Comment


                • #23
                  Well, I've decided to keep it voluntary, and the legislation on both issues is currently pending.

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                  • #24
                    Then voters should just write "bunch of idiots" on their election form. I believe in Belgium a few percentages (certainly less than five) of the election forms are blank or declared illegal. So if you really don't want to vote on anyone, you still have that option.
                    But the compulsory system certainly gives a more accurate representation of societal currents. Parties can't just ignore certain social groups because they vote less.

                    Edit: So as a result left-wing parties will be better represented in government. Those parties will make laws that benefit the lower social groups eg cheaper education & social welfare, so those groups actually get MORE liberties. Conclusion: Make your people free! Make voting compulsory! (I love such apparent contradictions. )
                    Last edited by Maniac; December 28, 2002, 19:40.
                    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                    • #25
                      Well, I say that if people don't want to vote, screw them, that's their problem. It's not the government's job to protect stupid people from themselves - only to protect the rest of society from stupid people.

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                      • #26
                        Well then you should protect the part of the lower classes, that want to make their voice heard, against that stupid ignorant part of the lower class with the opinion that all politicians suck and that voting doesn't help. Those ruin the future of the more ambitious lower class people.
                        Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                        Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                        • #27
                          Democracy isn't about forcing people to look out for their own interests. If the ambitious lower class people can persuade the rest to vote for them, good; if not, why should people be forced to vote for them? Or anyone else, for that matter? That isn't democracy.

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                          • #28
                            I never said they should be forced to vote for those ambitious lower classers!

                            Anyway, my concern, contrary to yours if I interpret you correctly, isn't freedom über alles, but checks & balances. Hence our different opinion I guess... Voluntary voting gives overrepresentation of certain groups.

                            The amount of freedom people actually get can be seen as a clock curve. If the government doesn't give any civil liberties, the people don't have any freedom logically. But if they allow everything on the fields of ethic, politics and economy, people aren't free either. Then you get anarchy, corporate monopolies, populist or corporate-funded/controlled politicians etcetera. The middle ground gives the most freedom, even if that involves taking some apparently freedom-restricting measures like compulsory voting. If that makes me undemocratic, well then I'm happy to be no democrat...

                            PS: oh yeah, this clockcurve idea is why I consider extreme-libertarians or people like Archaic actually totalitarians. Contraria sunt Complementa. Opposites touch.
                            Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                            Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                            • #29
                              I never said they should be forced to vote for those ambitious lower classers!
                              Well, they have to vote for somebody, don't they? And I thought the reason you were in favour of compulsory voting was to get them to vote for said lower classers.

                              Anyway, my concern, contrary to yours if I interpret you correctly, isn't freedom über alles, but checks & balances. Hence our different opinion I guess... Voluntary voting gives overrepresentation of certain groups.
                              Yes, but it's a voluntary under-representation. If they actually care, they can vote; no-one's stopping them. Besides, what evidence is there that the lower classes don't vote as much as the upper? In places like the US, I can see that happening, but Centralis is not the US, and it won't become it any time soon...

                              The amount of freedom people actually get can be seen as a clock curve. If the government doesn't give any civil liberties, the people don't have any freedom logically. But if they allow everything on the fields of ethic, politics and economy, people aren't free either. Then you get anarchy, corporate monopolies, populist or corporate-funded/controlled politicians etcetera. The middle ground gives the most freedom, even if that involves taking some apparently freedom-restricting measures like compulsory voting. If that makes me undemocratic, well then I'm happy to be no democrat...
                              I understand what you mean, and I agree with you to a point, I just disagree as to where the proper middle ground is.

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                              • #30
                                bah! I don't need any advice. It's my nation, and I will run it to the ground myself. Actually no, I think I'm doing pretty well. Libertarian is the way to go.

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