The Government System

[FrostyBoy]

We will be heading into the Government section soon, and this (for us) is a really tough area to get into.

Now, Civ4 has already implemented this, but please, don't think that we are copying them; we had planned something similar to what Civ4 has long before Firaxis released the information on their Government system (we typed it up about 1.5 yrs ago).


For those who aren't aware, Civ4 has no pre-set governments, rather you turn on and off a selection of options, the options that you choose, determines what type of government you are.



Well we are also doing the same thing, but I think what we are doing is larger than what Civ4 has (according to the shot of the government screen on the video).


In Humanitas: In the very very beginning, you will have no options, not until you discover the first discovery that gives you your first options. Now to keep this realistic, we are assuming that the people are worshippers - in other words, they worship something - something that you choose, I don't want to dive too deep into these features, I don't want to give too much information out, but I am looking for suggestions from all of you.

What sort of OPTIONS (tickable, turn off, turn on options) would be suitable at the start of the game? and what options (and technology) would be added over time?

Also what do the options do? Try to keep it simple.

For example,

Maybe, as the leader, you decide what your people should believe in. Maybe the first options available will be: Sun God, Earth God, War God.

Turn on War God, and % of something war related increases.
Turn on Earth God, and % of something resource related increases.

And yes, these first options will be the foundation of your nations religion. Do not assume that these options I have given to you for as an example will remain that way throughout the game, the options (eventually) will disappear, many options will become obsolete as you progress down the tech tree. (well, actually, it may be possible to be advanced and still worship the Sun God, not sure how that's going to work yet).

[Kinjiru]

Your examples sound like that you are on the right track, so to add some more detail...

war god - units have a 5% bonus to strength (don't know how you are modeling unit strength, so can't get more specific)

sea god - ability to harness +1 nutrient from coastal squares

earth god - ability to harness +1 nutrient from plain (or grassland) squares

wind god - units have a 5% bonus to mobility

sun god - units have a 5% bonus to health

moon god - any city with a moon goddess temple has a 5% bonus to efficiency (over and above any other bonuses conferred by a temple)

[Andrewspriggs]

Wait? Is this system going to be something like an Advanced Social Engineering screen (a la Alpha Centauri?)

If so, there should probably not be civ-specific options (like in AC, Gaians couldn't do Free Market--I am NOT asking for that), but rather there should be a tree.

For instance, your civilization begins with basic religion. Then, when you research, you can get advanced religion. Later, you can either STAY with your advanced religion, or delve further into other governmental options (freedom of religion, Separation of Church/state, etc.,)

This will get entirely more complicated from here, but eventually there will be separate tree depending on your choices. For instance, if you decided to have a deeply religious state (as opposed to separation of church and state), later on, your social choices will deal with religion.

If you want to change DRASTICALLY from one type (iron-fist of religion) to another (free), then you should have some kind of downtime...like revolution.

I'm really not making myself clear, but then, to explain further, I would need to see a list of what concepts you are using throughout history.

[Nikolai]

Regarding religion: Would it be an idea to have some kind of mechanic like Civ4's, where one civ giving f.ex. religious freedom would make your people (gradually?) want the same? Maybe you could have the opportunity to "advise" your people through other options in the government system. Like free press, level of propaganda, level of grip your chosen religion is having on it's followers(this might be static for each religion or flexible through choices you have made elsewhere along the way, I don't know).

[GeoModder]

Don't forget starting locations from the tribes.

If a tribe starts somewhere in the middle of a continent, it doesn't make much sense to give them a seagod worship 'ability'. Rather, a civs first options in this area should be determined by it's position on the map.

[Andrewspriggs]

I agree with Geomodder...

If we want to go for PERFECT historical accuracy...then you could give the civs base religions like that...BUT!!!! I would RATHER it be that the base religions are decided by location--because our historical stereotypes are decided by LOCATION.

[Blake]

Maybe you could create a religion by doing, that is you can build temples to different gods, and the temples you choose to build influence your religion.

Like you could build a temple to the forest god, increasing yield from up to X worked forest tiles at the city and also having a (small) global effect that may not be entirely related to the local effect. Global effects from different (but not same) temples would stack, MOST ancient religions were polytheist after all and had more gods than you could shake a stick at. To make the temples weaker than later facilities the local bonuses (in the city where the temple is built) should be capped to a fairly small number.

Temple to the:
Sun God: Increased Commerce in city tile, global immigration bonus. (Sun = a lot of gold and visually impressive temples).
Earth God: Increased Food yield from plains/agriculture, global improved health.
Forest God: Increased Production, global wood costs slightly reduced. (depending on how resources are done, it might just make select wooden units cheaper)
Sea God: Increased Yield from Coastal tiles, global improved naval move speed or resiliance to storms.
War God: Ancient barracks effect (trained units are higher rank), global reduced military support costs.
Moon God: Bonus to ancient age espionage/sneaky style units, global pillaging bonus.

A few other gods I can think of are Beasts, River, Mountain, Volcano. Altough if you think about it something like a Volcano would be "involuntarly" worshiped, because a new fire belching mountain is pretty impressive to the tribe, regardless of what their leader might want them to feel.

Possibly the global (but not local) effect of ONE temple could be achieved by a festival. Also each additional temple should cost more than the last, with the need to make each more glorious. This would make heavy investment in temples not particulary economical, but could have long term benefits - like tourism (the later, more expensive temples making better tourist attractions).

The (ancient) bonuses from temples could be phased out at the same time as a "Deposition" penalty is lifted.

[Andrewspriggs]

However, for modern religions, there should be creative benefits. At the begining of Humanitas, playing should be focusing on survival, so I AGREE that the religions of the beginning should offer quick ways to survive.

HOWEVER, in later periods, the effects of religion should change to match the sophistication of the society--such as DIRECT governmental options.

For example, America simply couldn't do a ALL OUT dictatorship in these times because of religion. I don't mean to say that we have no separation of church and state, but it is pretty prevasive (for good or bad) in the laws. The good thing is that--we have that idea of freedom. The bad thing is--we just can't tell when freedom is too much or too little.

It should give players an incentive to research and progress in religion, like historically it has (somewhat). There's not a lot of people still worshipping Zeus...so it would be unrealistic to have that kind of thing in Humanitas.

[Andrewspriggs]

Also, a major issue concerning government is the amount of control. In the entire Civ series and spinoff set so far, EVERY government has been a totalitarian dictatorship, with the player as a dictator.

In check/balanced govs, there should be less micromanagement by the player's part--the cities should for the most part government themselves.

How can this happen--something like a Automatic Governor should be created for all cities when a player enters a gov like Republic or Democracy. The player should not be able to turn off this government--except by switching government or adjusting various pieces of their gov.

This way, you don't have to worry about a lot of things--for instance, you won't have war weariness because when your citizens are tired of the war, they will STOP building units, until you change your government system to include "Draft/Conscription".

[RoboPig]

i think thats a good idea, but for democracies and republics and other free governments you should have a senate. not like the civ2 senate but it actually votes. (if you are in huge debt and try to pay for something the senate says no. if it votes no then they should give you a reason. the senate should also be 'eleccted' by the people. so if you want to go to war with a neighbor country and most of your people live on that border, then they will say no since their homes will turn into a war zone.