Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Design Doc 0.2 discussion and vote

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Ah, I see. Well, thanks for clearing this up for me, Elmo.

    About the system, I agree with you mostly. Many people propably find the year long games fun, although I think that some would, and that I am likely to be a part of the latter group.

    So mostly people would propably play games like you described them - a few times longer than an ordinary Civ2 game.

    But at the same time I think it would be cool if the games themselves lasted a long, long time, even though players would come and go. And I also think using clans (yes, they would only be an advanced version of password protecting your otherwise open Civ player slot) would be truly great.

    So I believe a system much like the one we have thought of so far - realtime with a pause mode - would be the best for the game. Furthermore it could, with time, make it possible to speed up the pace and have the player only do general decisions, and so make really fast games (maybe just 4 hours or so to go from ancient to present day) possible.

    So here is what I think the system should be like:

    I believe it is much like what you have agreed upon, but just to make sure...

    Basically it would be a "slow" realtime, where 1 year might take 5 or 10 minutes or so (yes, this should be modifiable, and then each year (or more or less often, or not at all) the game would pause for x minutes, and allow players to think through strategies, give complex unit orders, manage economics, politics and other more time consuming things that is easier to do when you don't have to look at your units move around. This way, if we keep everything completely modifiable, the game can be made just as the players want.

    The only problems now are the extended games, where 1 year could be 1 day, and when the players are not online at the same time. This simply does not work with realtime. But all we need is a mode where the realtime mode is set on "instantaneous", there is a pause every year (or whatever), and people just do everything they do in the pause mode. Then it just has to be playable by email, and we actually have simple, preplanned turns.

    So with this system, which again is not at all my invention, but yours, we could have everything from pure realtime to pure preplanned turns, plus everything in between. And if anything is optimal then it has to be that.

    Now the only problem is to make it work. Can we do that? Are there any design issues that we should think about? Any weak spots or potential bugs in the system? Otherwise the turns will just be up to the programmers now, which, I guess, should start working on them when we have a UI, and perhabs a map.

    Anyway, I am home for easter from today untill monday. So if you guys would like to have a meeting with me then this is great time to do it. Can we arrange a time?

    ------------------
    "I have an idea for a movie. It's about a killer robot driving instructor, that travels back in time for some reason."
    - Homer J. Simpson

    GGS Website
    "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
    - Hans Christian Andersen

    GGS Website

    Comment


    • #62
      I think your description is really good. As you say, the progrommers have to do their job now. Hope you know where to start, but I guess so!

      We have to set up our framework and turn system now. I really, really hope we can have some cool results this month....

      Elmo

      Comment


      • #63
        Well, don't get your hopes up too high.

        With me only semi-active and all you guys buissy (some more than others, obviously) we can't hope for any glorious milestones right now. But I'm half way through my stay here now (I am now allowed to sail a sail boat now, BTW ), and after that I will have a pretty long summer break before uni starts in September, in which I will have time to do some serious GGS work. And I guess you guys will have summer breaks as well, so...

        ------------------
        "I have an idea for a movie. It's about a killer robot driving instructor, that travels back in time for some reason."
        - Homer J. Simpson

        GGS Website
        "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
        - Hans Christian Andersen

        GGS Website

        Comment


        • #64
          The lack of responce here is sad. Yeah, I know everybody are buissy. But it's easter! Surely you can't be working or going to school now?

          Well, I've just thought about the system. And the only real flaw I see (apart from the fact that it will prove tricky to create an economic and social model that works in realtime) is that realtime doesn't work with play by email games. So I think that those who want to play 1 year a day or something, should just use the type where the realtime part is instant, and therefore use preplanned turns that they can download as a package, do their moves and send the whole thing back as a package, meaning they will only need two short online sessions a day to play the game.

          And yes, there will be people who will want to play this way for a VERY long time. I have heard of people who are playing online games of Civ2 MP on year two and three, so they do exist.

          About the memory usage, I think you guys should check out the site www.republictherevolution.com. It's a game by some guy who used to work with Peter Molineaux (the genious who made the most fantastic game since Civ - and it really is, buy it if you don't have it - Black & White), but who is now working on his own game. The game is about you trying to take the power in some former Soviet republic, while interacting with the people in it. Like B&W the game has individuals all with their complex daily rutines (They are talking about everything from voting in elections to picking up their kids from school), only in this game there will be 1 MILLION of them!!!!

          What I am saying is that if you can have 1 million individuals in a game AND model every single leave on every single tree in a country you can have 1 million hexes in a game, and lots of populations which interact with each other. So I don't think we should worry too much about memory usage.

          ------------------
          "I have an idea for a movie. It's about a killer robot driving instructor, that travels back in time for some reason."
          - Homer J. Simpson

          GGS Website
          "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
          - Hans Christian Andersen

          GGS Website

          Comment


          • #65
            Well, Joker, why can't I work with easter? I work friday, sunday and monday... But I agree, I was also hoping for some more activity. Anyway:

            I agree with the memory issue: We don't have to worry about it now. The e-mail game problem was already solved exacly the way you descripe it. It was written by someone in a previous post. This system will do just fine.

            About game times: It seems we can use this system for any mode from 4 hour-game to 3 year-game, so let's not make a too big problem of it now. Let's just start trying to get the system into some code...

            Elmo

            btw. I am looking forward to Revolution for about 6 month now already! This sure is one of the most promising games now being developed!

            Comment


            • #66
              Hi all, sorry for my recent silence - not intended, just overworked and under paid.

              Very much looking forward to our game of Diplomacy - seems a simple but elegant game.

              I'll read up on as much as I can on these forums, see if there's anything I can do, maybe with the EventManager or MultiplayerManager over the next couple of days.

              Chris

              "Wise Men Talk because they have something to say, fools talk because they have to say something" - Plato

              Comment


              • #67
                Oh and regarding a meeting, anyone free for tomorrow? Since we didn't have one on Thursday. I'm free all day tomorrow, anyone else?
                "Wise Men Talk because they have something to say, fools talk because they have to say something" - Plato

                Comment


                • #68
                  Hello me again

                  Just have to say that Black and White looks amazing - not really my cup of tea game wise, but it's so emersive, and throwing rocks at buildings is just such fun!

                  I would veeery much like to see the GGS UI modelled around the mouse and clicking/dragging things rather than menu systems or keyboard shortcuts. I think it's the way of the future for games. I Would also like as much of the game to be displayed graphically as possible, with the option to probe deeper into tables etc. only if you want to.

                  And a note of concern, does my UI work okay for everyone? I tried it at work on what I think is about a P2 200 or so, and the mouse doesn't update properly, and the framerate was very low. Anyone else have a similar problem? I've somewhat lost faith in my message system since I saw that, could be that it's a bit over the top? Any opinions?
                  "Wise Men Talk because they have something to say, fools talk because they have to say something" - Plato

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Great to hear from you guys again!

                    Now all we need to hear from are our two Finish friends, and Heardie (who is excused because of his exams).


                    Chris,

                    I am free for a meeting tomorrow (hey, nearly all my friends are travelling the globe or something, so I don't have much of a life when I'm home), so I think a meeting would be a great idea. How about around 9ish? I am buissy from 8 and around an hour ahead, so 9 would fit me well (and of cause I am talking about 9 in the evening ). I can not promise to be 100% on time though, but around 9 I will be there. It's still GGS on Undernet, right?

                    And yeah, B&W is truly fantastic. Especially the creature is great, and obviously the graphics are stunning. I do, however, agree with you that I have not been caught by the gameplay in the same way as I was with Civ2.

                    Your UI worked good for me. I am using a 450 Celeron something PC, which my parents have bought without consulting me, so it's overpriced and rather poor. It's ok, though.


                    Vet,

                    LOL@porn sites!

                    I disagree with you about Republica, though. To me it seems to be a game where the stunning B&W type graphics are put to use in a real world, in stead of the cute eden world from B&W. It seems the game will be really complex when it comes to interacting with the people of the world, something B&W is not. So I think Republica, if it is as good as it seems, could be just my type of game.

                    I have heard about Tropico, and in fact I did some quite extensive research on it when looking for inspiration for the government model. It too looks great. But what bothers me about it is the scale of it. The island you are on starts with 20 inhabitants, and I think the max amount is around 500. So in stead of modelling flocking and factions the game engine can just model individuals on a much lower level. And that is not as impressive as having 1 million people all playing part in society.


                    Anyway, to keep this a bit on topic, what do you guys think of the turn model I suggested (but not at all invented)? Do you think it's good enough for us, needing some work or something? Let's GGS!

                    ------------------
                    "All that monsters fear is the day."
                    - Kashmir

                    GGS Website
                    "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                    - Hans Christian Andersen

                    GGS Website

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      hi everyone, happy Easter

                      Joker,
                      nice to see you ... good thing you are resting a bit from that long vacation you have (insert green - envy - smilie here, I dont know how to ; )

                      About the meeting, I cannot make it. I am cut off from internet a bit, heh, but not from computer. Perhaps I will do some work now instead of surfing porn sites all the time (ups, havent said that )


                      chrispie,

                      I have your UI working on 366 Mhz finely. We never said the low specifications, but this may be it. We just divide it by two and say minimum spec is P II 183 and everyone will know what we are talking about. Hey, big corporations do it and get away
                      I dont think the system is bad itself ... perhaps there is a bottleneck or two we can find with pofilers and fix.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I checked the site for the republica game. Black and White 2? Bigger village and no monster? I dont think 3D modelled cities "to great detail" is much of a strategy game ... check out Tropico instead, comes out by end of April from aouthors of Rairoad Tycoon 2. Sounds like very cool game.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Ok, 9 it is then, so is that 9 GMT/BST or CET? I'm currently confused by times, having recently moved forward an hour to be in BST, does GMT come with me? LOL

                          Anyone else coming?
                          "Wise Men Talk because they have something to say, fools talk because they have to say something" - Plato

                          Comment


                          • #73


                            I meant GMT. Which means that I am at #GGS right now, waiting for you!

                            ------------------
                            "All that monsters fear is the day."
                            - Kashmir

                            GGS Website
                            "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                            - Hans Christian Andersen

                            GGS Website

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              21.27, and noone here yet.

                              I'll go offline now, and be back in about half an hour. So if anybody shows up (come on, Chris!) you don't go nowhere, you hear?

                              ------------------
                              "All that monsters fear is the day."
                              - Kashmir

                              GGS Website
                              "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                              - Hans Christian Andersen

                              GGS Website

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Back online. And still noone. I'll just stick around, waiting for someone to come. Sure hope you're coming, Chris!

                                ------------------
                                "All that monsters fear is the day."
                                - Kashmir

                                GGS Website
                                "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                                - Hans Christian Andersen

                                GGS Website

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X