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VOTE RESULT: Turn Order

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  • #16
    I would like to see the simultaneous turns in economics as well though, I think it would add some unpredictability to it...

    But this one is kinda odd-subject, but it's a really kneat idea I think: Why not let us import cities from SimCity3000 and place them on the map somehow? I always thought that would be pretty cool to have a simcity and import it into a Civ game...

    Ok but seriously, I like to remind us all that during ancient times there is every bit as much going on as there is now, only communication and anfastructure were different. I see no reason to manage an empire at 20 year intervals like Civ and Civ2 did, and I always thought it was stupid to do that. An empire can completely rise and fall in one lifetime, how can you do that with three turns in Civ2? That's something I wouild like to put a big enough focus on, having a realistic (and fun) ancient game. You could emphasize it by saying that messages and units don't get transported for several years, that would really put an appropriate contrast to the light-speed information age. Say you could tell a unit way over in Jerusalem to move from point A to point B, and the unit would wait a couple turns, then get the message, then move, whereas in the modern game they move right away after the radio dispach. Same could be said for diseases- especially diseases. Say you get word in Washington that people in L.A. are dying by the thousands by some disease. 3000 miles away, you realize that by the time you get the tablet with the news carved on it, they're already dead and it's too late while in the modern age you get an email describing the first patient long before any outbreak. This would put an end to the rediculously large prehistoric empires that cover all of asia and europe before horses were invented.
    He's spreading funk throughout the nations
    And for you he will play
    Electronic Super-Soul vibrations
    He's come to save the day
    - Lenny Kravitz

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    • #17
      Now that sounds cool. I have dreamed about something like that. We should definitely try to do that. Perhaps we could have some transportation technology; in ancient times, you would need to use runner or horse couriers. The message would com to you or your units when the messenger has traveled the required distance, which is that unit's deployment range. If the range is smaller than the distance to target, it will arrive after some turns. This would really put some difficulties for large empires, which is only good balancing, and, quite realistically, force you to build roads and courier stations (and guarding outposts) in the ancient times. In modern times we would use telegraphs, phones, SMS's and email, that arrive instantly; perhaps we should incorporate some kind of penalty system to make the difference between all the light-speed travelling messages.

      About managing your empires year by year, that is ok for me. Year should always be the standard time unit; for units, in some cases you could use them in twelve "phases" per each turn, meaning that in war-time you could move them one month at a time. This is especially useful in modern times. In ancient times, you could always skip turns if you don't want to do anything. I have always thought it would be cool to run a large empire year-by-year for 6000 years. We just need to work hard to make it meaningful to do so; the differences between different eras must be really significant, so the players will have patience to play the same game for weeks Also the players needs to have enough to do, but all tedious tasks must be automated, so the player can give them for AI if he likes.

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      • #18
        (but what do you think about importing cities?)

        Ok so then in order to make every year worth playing we need to outline what is fun and what isn't fun...

        FUN:
        Responding to challenges
        Attacking the enemy
        Accomplishing tasks/goals
        building up the empire
        Watching it grow and flourish
        exploring the unknown
        actually negotiating with the enemy

        NOT FUN:
        Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over
        Meticulously moving units one space at a time for the next 50 years until they finally reach a point of any use.
        putting up with the AI asking you to sign an alliance after you've already said no about a hundred times.
        When there are no more challenges to meet
        He's spreading funk throughout the nations
        And for you he will play
        Electronic Super-Soul vibrations
        He's come to save the day
        - Lenny Kravitz

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        • #19
          (but what do you think about importing cities?)

          Ok so then in order to make every year worth playing we need to outline what is fun and what isn't fun...

          FUN:
          Responding to challenges
          Attacking the enemy
          Accomplishing tasks/goals
          building up the empire
          Watching it grow and flourish
          exploring the unknown
          actually negotiating with the enemy

          NOT FUN:
          Doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over
          Meticulously moving units one space at a time for the next 50 years until they finally reach a point of any use.
          putting up with the AI asking you to sign an alliance after you've already said no about a hundred times.
          When there are no more challenges to meet


          ------------------
          Goober
          He's spreading funk throughout the nations
          And for you he will play
          Electronic Super-Soul vibrations
          He's come to save the day
          - Lenny Kravitz

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          • #20
            The subturns are an ok idea. As long as you don't end up moving units on a monthly basis. If we do that then we could end up with a game lasting 72,000 turns. And that is not a good thing. Turns should be one year each. Of cause in scenarios we could have monthly or daily or even hourly turns, but that's another story.

            About the simultaneous turns in economics, I guess that could work. But we should just develop our economic system and see how it works out. It should not be a must to have simultaneous economic turns.

            I really like the idea of having information in ancient times that does not progress with the speed of light. You should propably only get information about your units with the speed (deployment range) or your fastest unit before the development of radio. This would further increase the problems of having large empire. It would, unfortunately, require a good unit AI, something that has shown to be really hard to make. After the development of radio I think that you should just play the game as in Civ2. I don't see the need to know whether you communicate with your units via e-mail, icq or phone.

            Importing cities from Sim City:
            Hmm. I don't think it would be that hard to do. you would mostly just need to know the size of the city, and if could be made. But let's focus on the more basic things before we start importing cities, ok?

            BTW: I completely agree that the most important thing is to make sure that all turns are fun. Guildmaster's list shows us excactly what we should do. I would add keeping your empire centralized, and avoid it falling apart. It really shouldn't be hard to create a huge empire in a very short amount of time. But it should be virtually impossible to stop such an empire from falling apart.

            So, are we using the planned turns???
            "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
            - Hans Christian Andersen

            GGS Website

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            • #21
              So, are we using the planned turns???
              yeah, we are!
              look, how it slipped by, with one vote!

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