What do you think?

[child of Thor]

Hi, I want to know which option people feel is the best one at this present time, taking into account that both games were pushed out by their respective publishers a little too early(IMHO).Prices quoted are in GB sterling(£'s) from HMV uk http://www.hmv.co.uk so what's the best value?

[Hermann the Lombard]

OK, I voted for CTP2 because that's what I'm playing right now. I fully expect to go back to playing Civ3 (at least primarily) once I start to burn out on CTP2 (which will take a while). The retail price really isn't an object for me. If I were willing to wait for Civ3 to be remaindered I'd be able to get it just as cheaply...so an answer might be to play CTP2 until the price of Civ3 comes down.

For me, the real cost is the opportunity cost of the time spent playing. I'd play both games NOW if I had the time.

They're different games. If your primary interest is in wargames, CTP2 wins, hands down. If your interest is in new concepts in turn-based strategy gaming, I'd pick Civ3 due to Culture, diplomacy, and the ability--with good play--to turn AI states into vassals or clients.

"Out the door too soon" -- well I've never played a computer game that wasn't, or a computer app, for that matter. On the one hand, the marketing department flogs the programmers for unrealistic time estimates, then tries to hold them to those estimates. Eventually somebody needs cash flow badly enough to overcome the objections of the programmers, and out the product goes. Civ2, Black & White, Merchant Prince 2, Daggerfall...I can't remember the last game I played that did not require a patch. All the business apps require service releases and service packs and security patches, etc. etc.

In the end, we the users are the real beta testers...as are mine, unfortunately.

[child of Thor]

Thanks all who voted!
Herman i'll have to take your word that the diplomacy is better in Civ3, and that culture actually works
Maybe when it has multiplayer i'll buy it and find out!
I can't quite remember when patches started to become the norm? But most of my early game experience was patch free
I wanted to do this poll here first to get a bit of objectivity(the vote for Civ3 makes me feel vindicated), before trying it in the Civ3 general forum. I voted for CTP2 - for £5 and after modding, you get a lot of game time for your money!(I bought a second copy because it was too cheap to resist). And judgeing by the almost battle weary Civ3 forum i would like to throw them a crumb of comfort
£30 for a dissapointment you can't mod enough but is still presently officially supported..................................

£5 for a dissapoinment you can mod extensively and has lots of good Mods already but isn't officially supported anymore............

[Locutus]

Well, seeing how one game has my name in the credits while the other one doesn't, that's not really a choice, now is it?

[child of Thor]

Everyone has a choice,........I think you probably chose the right one in this instance (you didn't vote Civ3? did you? )
I might give this poll a few days here and see if it can be moved to the Civ3 forum or just do a new one there? Im not sure what would work best(bearing in mind day old posts in the Civ3 forum sink like lead and i don't know if this was moved if the date of initial posting would still count ).Suggestions?

[Locutus]

Let me answer your first question with another question: is my name in the credits of Civ3? There's your answer

The thing that counts is not the date of initial posting but the date of the last post. In any case, you should create a new poll in Civ3 because you're not gonna get it moved. Even if you post in Civ3, it's probably going to get moved to the Apolyton/Community forum, where these sort of polls are supposed to go (don't worry, I'll tolerate this one here though ).
But I think the results of the post will be predictable either way: over here (almost) everyone will vote for CtP2, in Civ3 (almost) everyone will vote for Civ3...

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Locutus
Let me answer your first question with another question: is my name in the credits of Civ3? There's your answer

I guess some people have more of a choice than others , Still would you vote for Civ3 if it was the other way round?(in that your name was in the Civ3 credits BUT it was still released way before being ready - much more so than even CTP2 it seems?) now that's got to be a hard one to call

I thought i was being on Topic(i'm not very good at this ). I'm really trying to get at the point that both games were relesed on an unsuspecting buying public without being really anywhere near playable as advertised on the web-site/gamebox. This is IMHO wrong. And the end result is we have one of the best loved/followed genres in a bit of a mess.
CTP2 probably missed out most - from what i've seen yourself/Hex/Dale/Wes/, and all the rest of you talented folks, manage to get out of this game.....well it's quite amazing. I do occasionally play it vanilla style to remind me how much you have all improved it!And this without the source code/exe. Activision could have cleaned up on this game if they gave it some time - i'm utterly convinced of it.
And now we have Civ3.........well it just seems a mess really(i have never played it but i do follow the Forum over there.). So it was a slightly ironic poll really........trying to show how cheap Civ3 might be in about 12-18months time? i.e. if a game isn't done right it's not worth doing, and hopefully the publishers will get it through their thick skulls?
Sorry a bit rantish
Is it really not on topic?.....not even slightly?im worried i'm never going to get the hang of this posting thang

[Martin Gühmann]

Choices, Choices I vote for the beta that I already own. With this one I can do a lot more than just beta testing, I can also fixing. BTW, I just realized that CTP2 AI needs a good unit stacker, a good unit out of the city pusher, a transport unit loader and a unit detrencher/from the road mover.

-Martin

[Locutus]

Sorry, DP.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by child of Thor
I guess some people have more of a choice than others , Still would you vote for Civ3 if it was the other way round?(in that your name was in the Civ3 credits BUT it was still released way before being ready - much more so than even CTP2 it seems?) now that's got to be a hard one to call

Well, if I was only in Civ3's credits (and not in CtP2's), I would definitely vote for Civ3 If I was in both or neither, I would go for CtP2, as I find modding to be more fun than actually playing and you can't mod Civ3...
Happy now?

I thought i was being on Topic(i'm not very good at this ).

As far as I'm concerned you are, but the owners of the site have the policy that all game-comparison threads should go in the Apolyton/Community forum (or Other Games forum if none of the choices is a Civ game). No, it doesn't really make sense to me either but they're not paying me to make sense of it all

I'm really trying to get at the point that both games were relesed on an unsuspecting buying public without being really anywhere near playable as advertised on the web-site/gamebox. This is IMHO wrong.

Well, I couldn't agree more but: welcome to the world. That's how things work these days, as much as I hate to admit it. Very little games are released (almost) flawless, only a few companies (MoO3's company, Blizzard) seem to care about quality.

CTP2 probably missed out most - from what i've seen yourself/Hex/Dale/Wes/, and all the rest of you talented folks, manage to get out of this game.....well it's quite amazing.

Well, thanks but the reason for this is not because Activision screwed up (which they did, of course), but because they did a great job on making the game moddable. The out of the box game should have been of the quality of the Apolyton Pack (maybe with an even stronger AI). All the features that MedMod, Cradle and other mods/scenarios add are extras that noone should have expected Activision to include in the default game. There's no such thing as the 'ultimate game', there are always more features to add, more bugs to fix. Contrary to Firaxis, Activision was smart enough to realize this and allow the gamers to make additions/improvements themselves.

Is it really not on topic?.....not even slightly?im worried i'm never going to get the hang of this posting thang

Don't worry, you're doing fine. It's just that Markos moves in mysterious ways

[child of Thor]

Thanks for your answers Locutus, and for putting up with my newbie mistakes

now how much do you think Activision will want for that source code

[Locutus]

Originally posted by child of Thor
now how much do you think Activision will want for that source code

More than we all can spare

[Pedrunn]

CTP2 even if it cost 100 times more !!!!!!!!

PS: If i have all that money of course.

[Dinner]

It seems like CTP2 has taken a commanding lead in the poll.

[child of Thor]

well i posted in the civ3 forum a couple of days ago, so i guess i'm not going to get much more feedback. The result's weren't quite as cut and dry as i was expecting. 39 votes in total from both polls(not alot!), and at this point i declare CTP2 the overall winner with a total 21 votes compared to Civ3's 18. I know that probably CTP2's votes might have come from the same people(voted on both poll's). Still even if i cut those votes in two(call it 11), it's still not a complete whitewash.
On reflection the only distinct result from the poll was the general lack of intrest from the Civ3 forum.I get the feeling that either

a)CTP2 and Activision left a very bad/unforgivable impression
b)Its too hard for the 'average' user to mod CTP2 succsesfully
c)Civ3 fans, even though generaly upset by Civ3, don't give a monkeys about CTP2.

The first one i can accept(i was one of those very angry people).
The second does really seem to be a problem for some people, they try a mod it doesn't work they give up.
The third one i can't understand - if you like the 'civ' genre and are a real fan of it, then IMHO you will try all varients to experience as much as you can, after all CivII though a classic does get a bit samey once you've completed it an deity level for the 10th time?(which i haven't ).
Thus concludes my first Poll. Ah well they can only get better