I'm disgusted on the lack of intellect in CTP2 players

[colorme]

Omni,

You're right that we should have an 'AI mod' thread (hell, even a whole section actually). Lots of modifications to the AI hae already been suggested, and it is not clear how much these affect the AI. I fiddled with the AI database and SLIC files for quite a few weeks, and haven't been able to come up with anything satisfactory. The explanation about the files posted by Mr. Ogre was good, but it was woefully inadequate - I understand though that this is not his primary responsibility.

But fixing the terrible AI is their primary responsibility! And that doesn't seem to be happening.

Sorry, didn't mean to be rough to you in my previous post.

[MrFun]

Omni, I appreciated the modifications you have made in the past and what others have done. I have implemented many of them.

And again, I thank you for putting my North America map on your website.

I have not complained while NOT doing anything. In fact, I have modified the AI where I know how, and have seen a little improvement - nothing dramatic though.

I just wish I knew what modifications for effects or factors require manipulation of SLIC and not just the text files.

[OmniGod]

I did try to modify civII and CTP2 and to the best of my knowledge, there are very few differences. Sure CTP2 has more things that aren't doing anything (should have been removed before shipping, or at least tell us what isn't working) but the amount of change for either, is approximately the same.. isn't it? All the things that were mentioned

quote: sound effect of a unit, the civilopedia reference, the appearance, the capabilities and the preference for AI research.

are very much customisable in CTP2, you just have to know where to look, just as was the case when civII was in it's infancy... when CTP2 is 2 years old it too should fall to the whims of it's players as civII has. Now when civIII comes out, people will whine and only years later will they be happy.

Rich - break over... back to work

[Bluevoss]

Someone mentioned how maybe CTP2 is a "beginer" game, and that the AI wasn't meant to be a real challenge. Well, "Impossible" level should mean its "Impossible" to win. In CTP2, Impossible means Eventual.

Yeah, the players can fix their games, but really, tweeking AI can take hours and hours! Unless you build a set of test cases to run your AI over and over on, how can you be sure what you are changing even makes a difference.

I'd love to put the Civ2 engine up against the CTP2 engine and let them play a game between themselves. It would be a Civ2 world. While I always found Civ2 a little too aggressive, CTP2 is asleep.



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Bluevoss-

[blinder2451]

Customization is the key here and Civilization 2 MGE has the locksmith setup to get what you want.

For instance, I can customize the sound effect of a unit, the civilopedia reference, the appearance, the capabilities and the preference for AI research.

CTP2 gives me so little customization I stopped playing because it lacked that replay value, which for a customizer is most important.

I have faith Activision will provide these capabilities but until then, I'll just wait patiently and play more Civ2:MGE.

[Atahualpa]

I am disgusted with the title of this thread!

When you say you want to fix the AI issue and such, I thank you very much. But there are people here (like me) who have other things to do than to fix a game so that it is more what EVERYBODY wants (and not just me alone!).
Sure they gave us tools and ways to CHANGE the game, I dont think they should be meant to FIX it, I admit they can be used to fix the game but it was a very evil intention from Activision if they meant them to be this way.
But if you want to fix it, go ahead.
Maybe you can make Ctp2 something I can play again. I dont have the time nor the will to do so and many others agree with me here.

I am just angry and annoyed that Activision missed their chance to release a real good game. The game WOULD BE good, but again I feel it is unbalanced and unfinished. And no, its not just ME who thinks so!

And I dont want to participate in any alpha versions of AI fixing mods. I dont want to hear comments like: Change this and that setting to 'a' and 'b' and you are fine.
I just want to download a zip that says: "The ultimate AI fix - install it and try to survive!". And when I install that I really feel the game has a life and AI is not so passive and stupid and whatnot. Else I am fed up with the game and anything that relates to it.

So I say good bye to this forum and good bye to Activision.

Good bye,
Ata

P.S.: remove that stupid title.

[Dale]

Ata,

Here here! I too have many other things I need to do other than fixing a sub-standard AI. For instance I have a lady I like to pamper.

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[RayvenWolfe]

I really do not consider myself to lack in the intellect department, to be honest. And while I am no Einstein, I do have an IQ higher then your average vegetable. That being said, I do find myself moderately offended by the topic presented.

When we bought this game, we figured we'd spend the $50, install the game, and be able to play it. And for the most part, that is true. However, as has been related in plenty of other threads, things like saved game bugs and multiplayer resynchs really put a damper on it. I am a student in college and barely have the time to complete my studies and maintain something akin to a life. I did not spend my money to sit and make mods to this game. The man I live with is a software engineer and he gets paid to design and implement a product which works and satisfies his clients.

While I appreciate the flexibility of the game with respect to making modifications, I do not believe that such modifications should be necessary to have a mostly enjoyable experience with the product. I feel like Activision rushed this one. And I do not feel they did it because they were idiots, malevolent or suchlike. I believe they did it because they are a business. And because, regardless of the product they released, there were enough of us waiting that we would buy it anyway.

If anything, it's an ethical thing and probably not appropriate to this venue. What is also inappropriate, however, is the title of this topic and the sentiment behind it. If Activision were sending out cheques to people who spent time modifying the game to suit playability, I might be overjoyed at this prospect. Alas, we send them the cheques instead for putting out a product that would have benefitted from a few more weeks in production.

Please, do not insult our lack of intellect here. Most of us simply wish to play a good game. Not write one.

[Diadochi]

Mods, tweaks, edits are very popular these days.

However I must scream out loud for those who just want to play a good game, and not have to spend hours downloading improvements, altering text files, and the such.

Yes, tweaking a game can be fun.

But sometimes people just want to play a game. Not play game-designer.

The bottom line is, I am dissappointed with CTP2, and so are many other players.

[Bluevoss]

Isn't THAT the truth. They did so well with the new stuff, but then bunged up the old stuff (AI, population).



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Bluevoss-

[Darkknight]

Actually it's better to have people complain a bit try to fix it yourself first though if you're still confused then come ask us give us ideas on what to do.
By the way the creation forum should be used for things that can be fixed by us theres a bugs forum isn't there any purely program fixes you want go there please if though if you think there's any chance it might be fixed using slic or anything then come to us.

Also about my collection obviosly i cant find out how to do it all by myself so feel free to mail me or reply to me anything mod you've made and details on how you did it and i'll put it in.
Cool new civ3 site by the way in firaxis.
seems civ3 will be using sprites as well worse for modders i miss the day when you could open up paint and edit a civ2 unit oh nostalgia cool warrior unit grrrr.
Gondhi_dm@hotmail.com

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" mind over body "

[Darkknight]

Sorry connection really bugged up and there is a suggestions forum for bug reports.
[This message has been edited by Darkknight (edited January 19, 2001).]

[Darkknight]

and again

[This message has been edited by Darkknight (edited January 19, 2001).]

[Mike the Nuke]

I feel smarter and smarter everyday. I didn't 'waste' my $50 on this game! It didn't have what I wanted and this forum shows it has little of what others wanted (unfortunately they 'blew away' $50 for the game to find that out).

Once again, I have to thank this site and all the "unknowing, (possibly) unwilling" Activision CTP2 game testers for forking the 'forking up' the bucks for the game so that I could save my money!

I have much, much, much more important things (and better things) to do in my life (and spare time) than fix someone elses 'screw-ups', especially those in some 'stupid' computer game. I'll just wait (and save my money) for something else that is better prepared and better supported.

[Andydog]

Absolutely shocking.

Those who have forked out their hard earned cash on this game are now expected to go in and improve it's woefully inadequate AI. And those who don't are stupid.

To OmniGod and everyone in Activision:
I was disappointed with the game as it is, and now to read this. It's the final straw that has made my mind up to return the game to the shop.

I think it's about time that you heard a few home truths. It is not reasonable to expect joe public to fix the game's problems and shortfalls. You produced the game, you should do a proper job! Not only is the AI pathetic, but the game has major bugs!

It's a real shame, because it has such potential.

I won't be buying any more of your products; you appear to have no qualms about releasing a half arsed job, and now expect us to finish it. It reeks of un-professionalism.
I hope you are ashamed of yourselves.