Is it me or is tech tree seriously flawed?????

[jkadabomb]

I have noticed alot of anachronisms in the tech tree as well as stuff like getting nukes so late and not getting very much time to use them before antiballistics comes along. Stuff like that.

[MarkG]

depends on what you consider worse: lack of historical realism or lack of game balance

[Christian B]

I perfer both game balance and historical correctnes.

[MarkG]

(as if there is anyone who doesnt want both)


what about if you cant have both?

[jkadabomb]

Well actually I think it is quite possible to have both, I just think activision didnt spend much time on tech tree, I think they spent more time on the gameplay.

[Christian B]

If you don`t have both can you then really call it a great Civ game?

[MarkG]

a really great civ game is one that is FUN. both(historicall accuracy and game balance) is needed. it's just that the right mix is different from player to player....

[Maximus42]

"No compromise between historical accuracy and playability?" What are you, drunk? Do you have ANY idea about the number of variables you'd need to make it 100% historically accurate?

Here are just a few things that Civ games don't take into account:

1) Erosion/natural shifts in ecology
2) Ice Ages
3) pestilence (except briefly in Civ1)
4) Natural disasters in general
5) treason
6) How come you can still rule by fiat as a democracy or other representative government?
7) Crazy or wildly inventive battlefield tactics (use of plague-infested horses as catapult shot, poisoning water supplies in sieges, etc)
8) Bigotry/racism
9) WEATHER! It (helped to) defeated Hitler and Napoleon, for Chrissakes!
10) How about the fact that immortal guiding spirits DON'T manipulate things in the background of history?

All of these games are mere approximations of history. They're useful as entertainment or learning tools, but can never be accurate. There's just too much stuff to simulate. And since choices have to made as far as what stuff to include, the designer has a responsibility to include stuff that the average user of the software will enjoy.

[Darkknight]

Great now you just ruined all civ games for me

yuou missed out the whole penquins or maybe tigers eating humans, i just read a while ago about some battle in india where both armies where using elephants and in the midst of battle several Indian tigers(big)
where caught in the middle and made the elephants go berserk and start trampling their own troops
or rather

[jkadabomb]

Maximus42 you are not very smart. The Ice Age was millions of years ago and has no chance of fitting into the Civ time periods.

[jkadabomb]

Oh ya no game can take everything into account, for example in C&C and StarCraft your units magically appear from minerals.

[Rollo Tomasi]

There's always the Little Ice Age (ca. 1000 AD), in which the global world temperature dipped a few degrees. This resulted in lower crop yields, more starvation, and the increase of barbarian raids throughout Europe. So I think that point is valid, even if it is made in jest

[Taliseian]

Civ and Civ2 had their Tech Trees fairly well balanced and historically accurate (with a few exceptions taken to make the game more enjoyable).

IMHO, CtP and CtP2 haven't done this, and CtP2 moreso than the original. Perhaps this is one reason (among many) that CtP, while a very challenging and fun game to play failed the "Civ" Test that all games of this genre have to pass.

Also IMHO, there can really be no compromise between historical accuracy (again, some exceptions can be made) and playability.

As for the exceptions mentioned above, they really should be few and far between and not a kind of loophole in the tech tree.

Taliseian

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The World of Lyrlusa
A Dungeons and Dragons Campaign World
http://www.crosswinds.net/~lyrlusa
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[TheBirdMan]

Hi Maximus42.

No, the game dosn't have these "features" - but some might be made by "our" terrific modmakers

Now I take your points one by one. I have to compare them to CTP as I dosn't have CTPII

1) Erosion/natural shifts in ecology

Kind of it has. Pollution and the ability to use PW to restore to grassland or whatever you want.

2) Ice Ages

This might be done. I don't know what possibilities, there are hidden in the socalled "events".

3) pestilence (except briefly in Civ1)

As for no. 2.

4) Natural disasters in general

As for no. 2 again.

5) treason

No, unfortunately not.

6) How come you can still rule by fiat as a democracy or other representative government?

Yes, here we miss the senate from CIV II.

7) Crazy or wildly inventive battlefield tactics (use of plague-infested horses as catapult shot, poisoning water supplies in sieges, etc)

A few "older" new units á la the infectors could to this job. Easy to implement.

8) Bigotry/racism

Something like this has been discussed between the modmakers on the forums. I don't know (can't remember), what the result ended up with.

9) WEATHER! It (helped to) defeated Hitler and Napoleon, for Chrissakes!

If the modmakers can handle no2, 3 and 4 then they can handle this too.

10) How about the fact that immortal guiding spirits DON'T manipulate things in the background of history?

????


Though nothing has been written from Activision, I'm sure there will be a patch or 2. And there will certainly be made lots of mods(!)

[SeveB]

I think people are missing Max42s argument a bit. For someone to say the game isnt' historically accurate is a bit unrealistic, because there are hundreds and thousands of things that have affected history.

Birdman, I think Maxs last point about the guiding spirits is that, when it comes down to it, the whole premise of civ games is pretty historically inaccurate!!