Is it just me or...

[Visceral Monkey]

Is this nothing more than a cleaned up version of CTP I? Its great fun and all, but there nothing really new here, maybe a few new units and all, but seriously, nada. The game is much slicker and cleaner than CTP I and thats great, but this should have been a free mod or an expansion for like $20.00, not $50.00. Anyway, I DO like it but feel cheated a little.

[MarkG]

yeah, i mean, ctp1 had borders, but they were just not "clean" enough. the samer with diplomacy. the proposals and the counter-proposposals threats were there, but you couldnt see them cause they were not very "clean".... and those flanking units, they were there too... and the tile improvement, it was the same but see what "dirt" does a system? it makes it look the same...

[Yoleus]

MarkG, you are a little to quick to set him out:
true, the game has some new (and VERY interesting) features and this ALONE makes it a NEW game - because it innovates gameplay...
BUT I think you will agree that the differences between Civ and CivII were bigger (GRAPHICS, interface, battles, tech tree and related, CUSTOMIZABILITY) than the ones between CTP and CTPII (battles, tech tree -by the way, I do not like very much CTPII tech tree- and related, interface, DIPLOMACY, BORDERS AND VICTORY CONDITIONS).
On the other side, there is practically NO difference between CivII and TOT, and I personally think that CivII is better that TOT ...
SMAC was massively innovative (sometimes too much? ).
Anyway, the changes in CTPII are way too big to fit a patch -I mean, what a patch would that be!- and the game up to now appears good from the reviews (I had not played it yet, you know, Europe) so I would give it some money - but frankly 50 euros are a little too much in my opinion...
I WILL give them the money, but if this time there is again NO SUPPORT (yes, I was one of the ducks who bought CTP... played it once and not event all the way through, then I FORGOT it and did not look for mods -besides, I do not like mods, you can SEE the game is "adulterated", for instance no library...) Activision will very probably not see me again.
And look, bugs&begs are already coming -luckily, not in hordes like some time ago ...

[Depp]

The differences between Civ 1 and Civ 2 were very small. The graphics sure, but I preferred the map lok of Civ 1 anyday, the rest was just added units/advances/terrain which is in CTP 2 as well. Then in CTP 2 you have major differences in diplomacy and battle and city management etc.
Civ 1 is still the innovation, I played that far more than Civ 2. Same thing as I explained with HOMM2 and HOMM3. If you had played HOMM2 so much that you were tired with it, HOMM3 offered nothing new, so you didn´t even want to play it. You were tired with it before it even came out.
CTP 2 on the other hands gives enough changes to grip me, and the possibilities of mods are always exiting.

[MarkG]

civ1 was release in 1991. civ2 was released in 1996.
OF COURSE the differences would be many(although some argue that they are not many)....

[MarkG]

an example of these people is Depp

[Yoleus]

quote: Originally posted by Depp on 11-22-2000 05:57 AM The differences between Civ 1 and Civ 2 were very small. The graphics sure, but I preferred the map lok of Civ 1 anyday...

You really prefer the old graphics? Ok, it is just personal taste I think. But what about CUSTOMIZABILITY???? Civ2 was a new game even just out of the customizability it offered, scenarios etc.
The multiplayer in Civ2 is much better than the one realized in CivNet (do you remember it?)
Up to now I quite like CTP2 and I am going to buy it, I think that the reviews on IGN are IGNoble but I fear what somebody called the "new toy" sindrome for CTP2. Yes, it is new and better that CTP, but not so new and, remember, slightly buggy: let me see support now - CTP was supported as a too-tight boot...

[Yoleus]

quote: Originally posted by MarkG on 11-22-2000 06:02 AM civ1 was release in 1991. civ2 was released in 1996. OF COURSE the differences would be many(although some argue that they are not many)....

Do you prefer a 5 year release difference between two quite different games well supported and patched, or a much shorter one between two more similar games, the first of the pair ridded with bugs, unbalanced and almost unsupported?
What I mean is: I like and will buy CTP2, but I DO NOT trust Activision. They played CTP with just money in mind: a company will definitely look for money, but an eye on the customers is necessary. I do not think I am the only one to distrust Activision strategy. Mr Ogre and friends are keeping an eye on Apolyton forums and are fast in replying, but they are just giving us words (even if really appreciated) and they DO NOT decide what Activision is to do.

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by Yoleus on 11-22-2000 06:25 AM a much shorter one between two more similar games, the first of the pair ridded with bugs, unbalanced and almost unsupported?

i would hardly call ctp1 unsupported with two patches...
beyond that, the only thing that kept me from playing ctp1 was the lack of free time...

as for whether ctp1 and ctp2 are similar, of course they are! ctp2 is a sequel after all. the additions/changes are enough to call ctp2 a new, separate game imho

[wheathin]

If you wait a couple of weeks, you should be able to pick it up at a promotional price at Best Buy or Circuit City or CompUSA for $30. I remember when ctp came out, after a month or so you could get the game and the strategy guided both for like $30 total.

[Visceral Monkey]

Ouch! Must have hit a nerve or something.

I'm well aware of the additions to CTP II that differentiate it from CTP I. And yes, what they've added has greatly changed and improved the game..but..enough to call this CTP II? Just barely, I think. It IS a much improved game, but if your criteria for a squeal is moderate tweaking and bug fixes then you must not expect much. A sequel should improve AND expanded on the original, while CTP II does improve on the original it doesn't go far enough in expanding it. If you bother to read what I was saying in my original post you'll see that I urge anyone who doesn't have the first CTP to buy THIS one. If you ALREADY have the first CTP my advice was to WAIT until the price drops, this one just isn't worth $50 unless your just a major die-hard fan, in which case any Civ game is worth the price!

I'm sorry if some people seem to have a personal stake in this game, but lets try to be civil about it, after all, it's just one persons opinion. Don't let it get to you.

[jkadabomb]

I think CPT2 should have been a expansion pack. Nothing worth 50 bucks to spend on although 30 bucks is reasonable. Really the only feature that was worth it is the brand spanking new interface.

[Yoleus]

quote: Originally posted by Visceral Monkey on 11-22-2000 03:19 PM I'm sorry if some people seem to have a personal stake in this game, but lets try to be civil about it, after all, it's just one persons opinion. Don't let it get to you.

Nothing personal! Just some gentlements expressing their TRUE opinions in mutual respect. Obviuosly, it takes some "energy" to show each own point