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**Mr Ogre** · November 19, 2000, 16:52

You don't get the battle screen when you attack a stack consisting entirely of non-combat (0 attack strength) units. They just die. A coracle is one such unit. They would not be able to damage your units, showing the battle would be pointless.

If you find someone's borders extending across the sea into your land, you can still settle inside his borders to reclaim it. You CAN settle inside another nation's borders, the only restriction is that you can't settle inside another city's influence. As a city grows, it will claim any territory for itself and for its nation that is not yet claimed by another city. It will never take land away from another city, however.

The rules for forts may not be obvious either - you can build a fort anywhere in your own territory (like any improvement) but also on any unclaimed land anywhere in the world as long as you are able to see that land at the time you start building. So if you can't get a settler out to build a city to claim some outlying parts of your continent, get any unit at all out there and build a fort. It won't reclaim anything from another nation, but it will help you consolidate your land until you can get cities everywhere.

**MarkG** · November 19, 2000, 17:00

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Ogre on 11-19-2000 03:52 PM
You CAN settle inside another nation's borders, the only restriction is that you can't settle inside another city's influence.

yeah, i've done that....
not sure if the opponent dislikes it....

btw, what's with the "they resent the fact that your nation hold teritorry on their continent" message? i started right here mister, what do you want me to do?

**Cyrius** · November 19, 2000, 17:45

quote:

actually, all treaties are now permanent(until broken of course)
therefore, when you to agree to a tresspass agreement, you agree to never tresspass again

Mark, how do you explain what happened to me then? Why did I get the message "Sir, we have failed to remove our troops from the XXXX's territory. They dislike us now", and thereafter find no treaty icon on the diplomacy screen?

quote:

You don't get the battle screen when you attack a stack consisting entirely of non-combat (0 attack strength) units. They just die. A coracle is one such unit.

:O Wow! Good thinking Ogre. Yup, non-combats just die. Very cool, really.

quote:

The rules for forts may not be obvious either - you can build a fort anywhere in your own territory (like any improvement) but also on any unclaimed land anywhere in the world as long as you are able to see that land at the time you start building.

WOW! You gota be kidding me! Cool! Heheh.

BTW, does anyone know if airfields can be built like this? They were useless in CTP1 because you had to put them near a friendly city. If we can now build them anywhere we can see, that would be a great boon!

Also, are their any other territory-expanding improvements?

Do units heal faster in a fort, like they would in a city?
[This message has been edited by Cyrius (edited November 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Cyrius (edited November 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Cyrius (edited November 19, 2000).]

**MarkG** · November 19, 2000, 20:11

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrius on 11-19-2000 04:45 PM

quote:

actually, all treaties are now permanent(until broken of course)
therefore, when you to agree to a tresspass agreement, you agree to never tresspass again

Mark, how do you explain what happened to me then? Why did I get the message "Sir, we have failed to remove our troops from the XXXX's territory. They dislike us now", and thereafter find no treaty icon on the diplomacy screen?

i have never goten such a message. beyond that, what you're saying tells me that you have a set amount of turns to comply to the agreement(e.g. get your units out). if this doesnt happen the agreement is considered broken

**MarkG** · November 19, 2000, 20:13

ah, found the string in dip2_str.txt as the REGARD_EVENT_WITHDRAW_TROOPS_VIOLATION

quote:

They are upset and mistrustful of us, due to our lack of follow through. We have failed to remove our troops from their soil as per our agreement with them.

**Cyrius** · November 19, 2000, 20:31

I belive what you have written is what shows under intellegience in the diplomacy screen. I actually recived a pop up; I think I did anyways. Maybe I was wrong I suppose. But I swear, i got a popup.... funky.

**Azmel2** · November 19, 2000, 23:18

quote:

Originally posted by MarkG on 11-19-2000 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Ralf on 11-19-2000 04:12 AM
I HOPE however that CTP-2 allows civil non-war ships to pass through without diplomatic consequences (provided that you not in war whith that AI-Civ, of course). If not - Activision could tweak that in an upcoming patch.

the thing is that a non-war(transport) ship can carry land units instead of a peacefull diplomat....

**Azmel2** · November 19, 2000, 23:20

quote:

Originally posted by MarkG on 11-19-2000 07:13 PM
ah, found the string in dip2_str.txt as the REGARD_EVENT_WITHDRAW_TROOPS_VIOLATION
[QUOTE]They are upset and mistrustful of us, due to our lack of follow through. We have failed to remove our troops from their soil as per our agreement with them.

Right again. Most treaties have about a 20 turn grace period. If you haven't complied with that time then the AI dislikes you for not following through.

-- Richard

[This message has been edited by Azmel2 (edited November 19, 2000).]

**Drakenred** · November 20, 2000, 11:06

quote:

Originally posted by Azmel2 on 11-19-2000 10:18 PM
Right Mark. The rule for when the AI gets mad is that they won't get mad about an EMPTY transport ship, but
will get mad if it has anything in it, including a diplomat. The reason is, they just know it has cargo, and don't know if it's a diplomat or army.

Hope that helps,

-- Richard

Actualy it is a bit odd

you put any stealth unit they suposedly cant see(and yes i did use the Cheat function to test this out) on a transport, they get mad at you, becuas they can now magicaly see all stealth units becuase they are on a transport.

looks like im going to have to modify the .Txt to see if i can make the diplomat an anphibian!(Growling)

**hexagonian** · November 20, 2000, 12:58

...not really

They see 'a' unit - they cannot determine the 'type' of unit.

**XMon** · November 20, 2000, 14:40

Hey, I was looking in the diplomacy.txt file and found this section re: regard penalties for events:

quote:

// regard cost or bonus for selected events
IncursionRegardCost -100
IncursionOfAllieRegardCost -200
InvaderMovementRegardCost -10
PerRoutePiracyRegardCost -10
ShareContinentRegardCost -2
InciteRevolutionRegardCost -60
AssassinateRulerRegardCost -60
FranchiseCityRegardCost -40
PlantNukeRegardCost -150
SlaveRaidRegardCost -50
LawsuitRegardCost -30
ExpelUnitsRegardCost -10
NukeCityRegardCost -250
ConvertCityRegardCost -50
EnslaveSettlerRegardCost -60
UndergroundRailwayRegardCost -60
InciteUprisingRegardCost -60
BioInfectedCityRegardCost -70
PlagueCityRegardCost -70
NanoInfectCityRegardCost -100
CreateParkRegardCost -250
InjoinCityRegardCost -50
PillageRegardCost -50

There's more to it but...isn't "Incursion" trespassing? Or is it something else? If so, then trespassing gives the same loss of regard as nano-attack! Seems a bit harsh, eh? What do you think "IncursionOfAllieRegardCost" means? The only other thing I see that could be related to trespassing is the "InvaderMovementRegardCost" which seems more reasonable at -10. Maybe incursion is to attack a city, I don't know, though there is a "TakeCityRegardCost" (-100). I'm thinking now that (supposing that trespassing=InvaderMovementRegardCost) it's the initial neutrality between nations that causes the negative regard to pile up so quickly. Since it takes a while to get Diplomats into the game it's more difficult to build up regard in the beginning of the game to offset the negative regard you get for trespassing.

Mr Ogre: Thanks for the info. I forgot about that aspect of battle. Is a Coracle considered a "civilian" unit? FYI for players: you can't run around killing settlers anymore, even if you're at war with the civ you get a -50 regard penalty for killing "civilians!" I think that's a penalty with all nations losing regard for you btw. It does bring up an interesting new strategy (not exactly new but with new possible ramifications) of what to do with those settler units you get while tearing down captured enemy cities. Thanks also for the info on the forts. Very cool idea. I know I can settle in their borders having done it, but can they settle in mine? The other civs have sent settlers into my lands but I kill them before they have a chance to settle. Another FYI for players: not being one to read manuals, I missed this until I was looking at the diplomacy.txt file, you will take a regard penalty (-20) if you attack any units without declaring war the turn before. If you are not at war with a civ and want to kill a unit(s) you must declare war and then wait until the next turn to attack or you take the penalty. I like this. It adds to the strategy.

The .txt and .slc files (from my cursory glance) appear to be wonderfully organized and a wealth of info for modding. I want to play 4 or 5 games of regular CTP2 and the scenarios before I go monkeying around with the files tho...

**MarkG** · November 20, 2000, 16:51

thanks for the finding XMon!

i'm chaning this two to 0

quote:

ShareContinentRegardCost -2

hey, lots of civs can live in the same contintent, deal with it!

quote:

ExpelUnitsRegardCost -10

what? you're sending spies to steal my techs and you get angry if i expel them? no way....

**Drakenred** · November 21, 2000, 01:35

quote:

Originally posted by hexagonian on 11-20-2000 11:58 AM
...not really

They see 'a' unit - they cannot determine the 'type' of unit.

i know that they see "A" unit, its just that to me it seems odd that the stealth units(witch are in reality only 1-5 people) on a boat will somehow be detected the same as a military unit that represends 500-1,000 people!

Drakenred

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