You could build an Empire State Building after disconvering Corporation? What kind o

[Linzen]

Not quite, compare it with a film like Independence Day, if you're seeing the Americans with all kind of advanced gunnery and the others awing at them handling the aliens it does feel quite denigrating.

And it does have an effect, not the least on the Americans themselves. Many are convinced that they have many have things no other countries have and mayhem only happens in other places, and when it does happen in US, it's worse elswhere.

[Linzen]

To Pyaray, I appreciate you do your best and I know it’s hard to satisfy everyone but that doesn’t entirely excuse neglecting certain aspects. (it’s not because you cannot create a perfect game that have to make a bad one, if you know what I mean)
Your game IS going to be exported to other parts of the globe so it would be no more than respectfully to foreign customers to consider them. Instead of reasoning that since the game is made in America you only have to consider American customers.

Besides I think that the East India Company or any other of the colonial trading companies of that era is a far better wonder for corporation but I think it’s bit late now to change that.

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by Linzen on 11-12-2000 06:08 AM Besides I think that the East India Company or any other of the colonial trading companies of that era is a far better wonder for corporation

East India Company was in ctp1 and is still in ctp2

[Linzen]

For what advance does it stand for ?

I'd rather think the empire state building as an icon of architecture.

[Linzen]

The current form of corporation is from the 19th century (and from Britain, France and Germany just as much as from US!), but other forms are way older, even dating back to the middle ages. The first a juridical forms was made was in the 15th century in England and the East Indian Company was definitely a corporation.

quote: What other wonders were created around the same time as Corporations? Just wondering.

That doesn’t answer what the Empire State building has to do with the corporation.
I still think the empire state building is far more connected to architecture.

quote: You could say that the modern age is dominated by the Americans

The industrial revolution did start in Britain and until the first war Europe was clearly the economic and political centre of the world and British navy and the German army were larger. After WW2 USSR co-dominated militarily and EU and Japan economically.
Most of the technologies in the modern age were European too.

But maybe that’s not how history is taught in US.

Now, suppose you see a baseball game and all the teams in it are Japanese or Cuban, would you buy it? Or how about a book about the history of the global automobile industry that only mentions the French, German and Japanese?

It has nothing to do with anti-Americanism, it’s about feeling denigrated.

[Dauphin]

I would say the perception of the US being more advanced is mainly because their population has more disposable income for the latest technological goods. The technology is elsewhere its just more expensive due to the economics of a country.
[This message has been edited by Big Crunch (edited November 12, 2000).]

[DarkOrder]

East India Company gives more gold for trade routes that go across oceans. Incorporations were not created until the 1900's, so the East Indian company would beat them out by what, 200 years or so? What other wonders were created around the same time as Corporations? Just wondering.

Maybe everyone ignored my info on what USA wonders there were, but they are only in 1 Age. 2 ages are more advanced and do not include any USA wonders. 2 ages are way before the USA was even formed(thus no USA wonders).

You could say that the modern age is dominated by the Americans, but guess what? As far as technology and military power, it is. This is not to disparage other countries, but one of the reasons it is like this is the fact that it is much easier to start a business or sell your ideas in the USA. Most other 1st world countries are more socialist in nature than the USA and make it much harder to become successful if you have not been born into it. What does this mean? The USA is dominant due to the influx of smart people from all over the world, into the USA.

Just some extra info. I think that the game is less USA oriented than you think, but maybe I am biased. I say, if you don't like the USA, buy the game and play as a different empire. You can play the whole game and never learn any USA technology, units or wonders. Sure, it makes it a lot harder, but could you play the game without Rome and their Hoplites? Nope. I think it would be a mistake to downplay an "Empire" in a game just to make it more historical or atractive to the overseas market. If the game is good, people will buy it. I think a lot of people will buy this game. Heck, its just fun.
[This message has been edited by DarkOrder (edited November 12, 2000).]

[Stratesford]

I think that the emp. state building is ok for a wonder, even if there are bigger buildings, what you dudes don't understand is that the empire state building was like a breakthrough in mod. construction and if that wasan't built maybe some of the bigger buildings we have today would not be here.

[Dauphin]

It may surprise you to know, if it wasn't for the invention of the lift (elevator) we would not have any skyscrapers. Therefore I feel the ESB prerequisite should be lift-building.

[KaiserIsak]

The empire state building is nothing against hollywood. I cant understand how anybody could consider that a wonder.

They should get some of the wonders from civ2 back.

[raingoon]

Not only is it a wonder, but most of the world considered it a wonder for most of the 20th century. And it remains so today, not because of its size, but because of the engineering feat it represents.

Erecting the building -- from first demolition of the Waldorf Hotel to topping it off 102 floors and 1,252 feet up in the air -- took only 11 months. Nobody in Europe or anywhere else has ever come close to that. Further more, the tallest building in the world for most of the 20th century stands perfectly plumb to within 5/8ths of an inch. This was accomplished not with the aid of computers, but with paper and pencil by a guy standing on another building across 34th street.

Beams were rolled off the mill in Pennsylvania, trained over to New Jersey, then ferried to the 33rd St. dock where they were taken individually by truck -- many of them STILL WARM -- to the sight for immediate hoisting, connecting and rivetting. Contractors Starret Bros. & Eken were so exacting in their time scheduling that if one truck were more than 10 minutes late, the driver was pulled from the line and told to come back the next day. Enough phone cables were installed in the Empire State to wire most of rural Europe at the time. Further, BECAUSE of this grueling pace, architects Shreve, Harmon & Lamb worked with the contractors to innovate building methods that revolutionized the engineering and construction industries. Their use of natural light in its design has likewise been copied around the world. To ensure enough Belgium marble would be ready when it was needed, an entire German quarry was purchased by the contractors, the marble extracted, cut, finished and shipped all in under a year. Enough electrical wire was laid in the building to wrap around the earth several times. I could go on and on.

But the point is, ALL THIS was done. And to this day the Empire State Building holds all speed records for construction, before or since. All of the technological advances that have followed have yet to produce a feat of greater magnitude in terms of speed and innovation, or its impact on construction around the world.

Upon its completion it was widely hailed as the 8th Wonder.

[This message has been edited by raingoon (edited November 13, 2000).]

[meriadoc]

You forgot only one thing - the Empire State Building remained the tallest building in the world for about forty years. It was built in the early 1930's and it wasn't until the 1970's that another building took its place.

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The Electronic Hobbit

[Dauphin]

quote: tallest building in the world for most of the 20th century stands perfectly plumb to within 5/8ths of an inch

You mean it sways by only 3cms. Or due you mean straight on average to within 5/8ths of an inch?

I do enjoy being pedantic.... but I would still like to know.

[meriadoc]

Considering how many tall buildings require complex counterbalancing devices to reduce the building's sway generated by the wind and how quickly the Empire State Building was built (not to mention how untried many of its construction techniques were), I consider either swaying only 3cm without any such devices or standing straight to only 5/8 of and inch away from perfect a major feat.

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The Electronic Hobbit

[Dauphin]

I'm not arguing with the acheivement, I'm just surprised that a sway of just 3cm (=2 * 5/8in) could be achieved. I would have expected a sway of half a dozen feet (=two metres).
[This message has been edited by Big Crunch (edited November 13, 2000).]