More advances

[KaiserIsak]

Ive just checked out the advance tree, and im very disappointed to see that the total of units, wonders, improvements and advances are not extended.
I think one thing that could make the game much more fun was the face that there was a lot more advaces, but offcourse faster to reasearch. There should be new units all the time, but they should´nt drasticly improve, maybe add one point defence or attack. Or maybe there should be techs who improved the defence of a unit with x. That could also be fun.
Offcourse the time to produce things should go slighly down as well.
Thats just my little opinion.

[Karol]

Having plenty of units You will always wonder who exactly has landed close to Your city. Is it Early Legion With Bronze Sword (2/1/1) or maybe Normal Legion (3/1/1) or maybe Late Legion With Iron Sword (3/2/1). Like in SMAC... I prefere to have list of Advances to use without any poster (like in Civ2 after 20 games played) instead of three A3 sheets of not differing Advances. That's just my opinion.

[Drakenred]

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian on 11-13-2000 12:49 PM Some impressions... They have seemed to space out the advances more, so you will be able to use a type of military unit for a longer period of time before being obsoleted by a more advanced weapon. (see Flight tree) The thing to note is that they also extended the game timeline, so a player should be able to use a particular unit for a longer time.

im still going over the Tec tree myself, im not entirely sure that they have completely eliminated the problem, but so far everthing is looking fairly good

quote: But have they increased the cost of units? I do not believe so, because Mark noted that he is seeing a lot more stacks and better-defended cities - a result of the AI having time to build up its forces.

Thank God(Goddess) for that,, i have enough problems trying to flesh out my 9 stacks!
(the 12 stack also solves a minor problem i have with city Defence, namly, you need 2-3 special units(spies-Trade) to help keep your cites from being Stelth atacked, + AA, + artilery, + City defenders,

quote: And did they adjust the combat numbers of units from age to age (one of the worst offenders was the SOTL/Battleship difference - given the fact that Battleships could be created before Destroyers)

My bad, sorry, i was thinking of the Palanx problem, (erk)

as for the problem with SOTLVs Pre-dedstroyer Batleships is the problem with TBS games that restrict you to one breaktrough at a time, Tecknicaly when the HMS Dreadnaught was launched, you abruptly had a major Technological revolution on your hands(one that was only aperent in retrospect, aparenly) namly that your Capital ships should carry the Maximum amount of the Heavyest Ordinace posible, with lighter, Fast fireing guns to deal with smaller ships, not try to carry guns to deal with Each class of ship out their, (after all, a 12 inch shell will still damamdge a ship careing and armored to survive hits from 10 inch and 8 inch rifles) however that also happened at the time that what could be considered Modern(ie early 20th century oil-steam powered as oposed to Coal powered) and in reality, during the 20th century, you efectivly had 6 clases of each major Batleship,

while it would(to me) be more realistic to have the Warhip tecks actualy create Diferent "Generations" of the same classes of ships, that may not realy be practical(IE the FIRST teck will give you the Pre-Dreadnaugnts, the (Early) Destroyers and Creuisers, with each subsiquent tec giving you the next generation of Warships,

However

it may not be very Practical(in the game) for you to build 1-2 predreadnaughts, 2-3 dreadnaughts, ect ect ect.

(For reference, (off the top of my head) i tend to break down the "Dreadnaughts" as follows:

The early coal 12 inche Dreadnaughts,

The oil 14 incher Dreadnaughts,

The WWI 15 inch Super-dreadnaughts,

The 15-16 inch Washington naval treaty era-Panama Cannal "Modern BBs"(granted some were designed and build before-during WWI, but to my knoledge, they did not participate to any degree) (I consider a ship to be a "Modern Batleship" as oposed to a Dreadnaught if it is using Origianly designed, fully turreted secondary armamanet making them distict from previouse Dreadnaughts Secondary armament layouts)

The 18 inch super-BBs(Yamato, and the Proposed 18 inch rifle BB proposal designed around the size restrictions inposed by the Panama Canal , that was shelved by the US Navy due to Treaty limmits, i dont realy class the individual British and Rusian 18 and 20 inch rifle ships to be nothing more than historical Odities, (in part because they were never efective as BBs, Were intended to be used as Shore-bombardment ships and not ships of the line, or were converted to other configurations almost imidialtly or scraped, however they do fit into the next catagory of. . .)

The diverse "modified" BBs(ie BBs retrofited to be carier Hybrids, Misile platforms, the Proposed Marine Ampibiouse Asualt modification to the Iowa class, ect

you also have at least 2-3 disticnt Generations of 20th century Rifle and Rifle&torpedo Destroyers(as aposed to the Guided misle destroyers), with armaments ranging from 3 to 6 inch rilfes, Cruisers (armed with anthing from 5 in guns to 8inch guns) Heavy Cruisers, and Even the largly Individual "Battle Cruisers" developed by several navies.

and frankly, in the usual timespan of a standard game that you see in the 20th Century trying to modle thoes changes with a tec-tree would be painstakingly hard, although it might be more realistic to modle it with a Senario that spans, say, 1200 turns on a month-by-month basis, from the First Irnclads and "Steel Batleships" of the 1860s and 1870s to the sinking of the Yamato

(you can disreguard my coment on the Armore, but im leaving it in)

Suposely the Armore factor takes care of that problem, (ie, your 12 stack of 3 Phalanx, 3 Archeres 3 horse archers and 3 balista keep succesfuly hitting, but the 1 tank unit has 2 armor points to negate the 1 point of damadge they try to do to it)

quote: I am also curious to see the differences the cost of advances between the Renassaince and Modern ages. (The cost factor went up tenfold in CTP1) That was a break point for a lot of players, especially if a player was able to get London Exchange before the AI. One of the strengths of the MedMod was a balancing of those differences, both in combat units and science advances. They didn't seem to be as drastic from age to age. (Of course, the addition of a slew of new advances that were merely a jumping off point to an important advance helped the transition - but it also gave a greater sense of realism to the game)

we will see, woulnt we?

Sigh

Drakenred


[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 13, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 13, 2000).]

[hexagonian]

Some impressions...

They have seemed to space out the advances more, so you will be able to use a type of military unit for a longer period of time before being obsoleted by a more advanced weapon.
(see Flight tree) The thing to note is that they also extended the game timeline, so a player should be able to use a particular unit for a longer time.

But have they increased the cost of units? I do not believe so, because Mark noted that he is seeing a lot more stacks and better-defended cities - a result of the AI having time to build up its forces.

And did they adjust the combat numbers of units from age to age (one of the worst offenders was the SOTL/Battleship difference - given the fact that Battleships could be created before Destroyers)

I am also curious to see the differences the cost of advances between the Renassaince and Modern ages. (The cost factor went up tenfold in CTP1) That was a break point for a lot of players, especially if a player was able to get London Exchange before the AI.

One of the strengths of the MedMod was a balancing of those differences, both in combat units and science advances. They didn't seem to be as drastic from age to age. (Of course, the addition of a slew of new advances that were merely a jumping off point to an important advance helped the transition - but it also gave a greater sense of realism to the game)