Announcement

**Tical_2000** · October 31, 2000, 19:52

Dear aCa,

I guess I'm one of the ones you mentioned that went 'ballistic' over the 8 civs thing. Well, I'm sorry I offended you and all the other saps who worship all those computer geek programmers at Activision who are getting rich pumping out half-finished games. But over 1000 Apolyton forum posters can't be wrong: We EXPECTED at least 12-16 civs and we were shortchanged. I'm not saying the people at Activision aren't nice for answering our questions but its obvious they haven't taken fan feedback as serious as many of us would like them to. In short, I feel sorry for you and all the others who will buy this game and feel as though they've shortchanged and will rush to the internet to provide them with countless patches and modification pack insanity.

**meriadoc** · October 31, 2000, 20:28

Funny, I don't remember Activision saying that there would be more than 8 civs in a game....

------------------
The Electronic Hobbit

**Nemo** · October 31, 2000, 20:45

meriadoc: no they didn't say it, but they did implement it in the first CTP - in a very "we can, but not enough time to finish" kind of way. they they dropped it all together. so, no, they didnt say it - they just showed us that it was possible, but never fixed it.

------------------
"Programming is like sex: one mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life."
-Michael Sinz

**Otto von Bismarck** · October 31, 2000, 22:06

I don't really see why everbody is getting so upset. I mean, what the heck to you expect?? Total perfection? Let's face it: there isn't a single game that includes features which everybody wants. Furthermore, it's simply a game, and, although it may not fufill your every gaming desire, it will most likely be far more enjoyable than almost all other games out there - canals or not.

It also seems that the reviews have all been posative! I mean, there had been some concern over minor bugs addressed in the articles, but it seemed to me that these problems were fixed.

I suppose I just don't know what everybody expects. If you expect heaven on earth, then you probably won't find it. But, if you want a game where you can spend some fun-filled hours, it seems to me that, judging from the reviews, you'll probably find it in Call to Power II.

------------------
Blut und Eisen

**MarkG** · November 1, 2000, 02:46

AMEN aCa!

Nemo, not putint more than 8 "legal" civs in ctp1 was not a matter of time. it was(and is) all about the quality of the ai you want, the resources it needs, and the level of minimal requirements you target for.

btw, it will still be possible to have 32 civs, just not "legal"...
[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited November 01, 2000).]

**Atahualpa** · November 1, 2000, 05:54

quote:

Originally posted by aCa on 10-31-2000 06:14 PM
I must say that some of you guys are very funny.Coming with all sorts about crap about the game before it's released. All the reviews of the BETA have been positive! In the midle of the positive reviews you find a line where is say that there are some bugs in the BETA. OH NO! They found a bug in the beta, the final game have to be very buggy, LOL! As I said I find this very, VERY funny. When one of you found all the bugs one of the reviews had noticed (can't remember witch review) and listed them up in a thred, some nice guy from Activision whent through all the bugs listed and told about the fixes they had made.

Ok then I tell YOU something: I was here when CtP1 came out, it was praised as hell, all people loved Activision and then we got the game and it turned out to be far away from our expectations. The AI sucked so much, trading technologies still crashes the game (even after the 2nd Patch and even because I said a hundred times that there is a problem with trading techs, I even sent them savegames explaining the probs and all... (does that one make mad? ). Besides, if they stick to it [the release date], they just have less than 1 month to finish the game. Now they needed 6 Months(!) to patch CtP1. Guess what they will be able to fix in 1 Month!
You and I want the same: A great game! But I am more cautious. I have lost most of my faith in Activision. Still I hope and want to believe. I dont want to be disappointed again!

quote:

Only 8 civ! Like some wise guys said it before me here on the board (sry don't remember who) It's mutch better to have 8 GOOD AI's then 32 crappy AI's. And the number of civ's is probably going to be editable anyway.

Sure its editable, but when they support only 8 civs, that would also mean that the official scenarios will only have 8 civs

quote:

I admit it's sad that there is no PBEM or Hotseat support, but I'll survive. This is a thing they could add later. There is no need to delay the realease just becouse some lazy ppl don't wanne download a couple of mb uppdate later.

lazy? Sorry guy, but I do pay telefon charges here. Besides did you know it took CtP1 6 Months to add PBEM?

quote:

I hear some ppl say that the graphics are the same as in CTP1. If you have been studdying the screens from CTP2 you'll see the graphics have been impoved. personally I wouldn't mind if they used the EXACT same graphics as in CTP1. Graphics doesn't matter mutch in CIV games. It never have and it probably never will. It's the gameplay thats so damd addictive

Thats true, but examine it from the other side round. Would ugly graphics destroy the gameplay? I dont feel very comfortable when I view a standard CtP Map. When there is desert next to arctic tiles and all clustered and ugly. Now look at a Civ2 Map and examine the tiles there. It looks much nicer! Much more "balanced" if you know what I mean.
I do think the "graphics are not important thing" is a big myth. They are important! But you dont notice their importance first. They add to the overall atmosphere.
Look at Smac, I didnt like the game, everything was so dark and only 256 colors. I didnt like Smacs graphics. That reduced a lot of atmosphere. (and I am not the only person that said that)

quote:

I really don't know what so say. It's hard for me understand what your problems are... Did you get sooo disapointed about CTP1 that you are afraid of getting "hurt" again?

Exactly! I want to play a great game!
A question to you: Have you played CtP1?
Hey, one thing: When you have found that out and understand that, why do you draw such a good vs bad line here?

quote:

Are you guys just here to bug the ppl who are really looking forward to the realease?

Yep! At least me! If it would be for me, they should release the game Q1 2001. I rather wait 4 months longer and have a great game then, than having a half-finished game now. Thats my philosophy. And the only company so far following this philosophy is: Blizzard Entertainment!

quote:

Hard to tell what the real problem is ...... whatever the reason is, I don't understand why you bother beeing on this board. Some of you guys say that this game is going to sux and you don't wanne buy it, why bother read about it?

I have been here when CtP1 was released.
I guess you too (thats what your registration date said). I dont say it is going to suck! I say: "Activision dont screw it up this time!" There is a big difference.
And I bother to read it, cause I want a great game! And somehow I still think the game can turn out great, although I have lost lots of faith. I would thank Activision if they can convince me with the opposite.
Besides why I read this hear is none of your buisness and you are the last person to disallow me to do this!

quote:

I'll think MarkG and DanQ does a greate job and keeps on working with this page, nomatter how may lame ppl that post stupid threads here (no offence to all you nice ppl ) And I also say I really appreciate that the nice ppl from Activision take time and answer our questions. Hope you game is going to be great

Dont draw a: We are good, you are bad line here! That sucks! I also appreciate that Activisioners listen to the forums and I have expressed that a hundred times. More times than YOU. And I am definatly not LAME! OKAY? I just dislike people with such a narrow mind as you have!

I guess you have a different opinion now! If not, I cant help you.

Ata
[This message has been edited by Atahualpa (edited November 01, 2000).]

**Atahualpa** · November 1, 2000, 05:59

quote:

Originally posted by Otto von Bismarck on 10-31-2000 09:06 PM
I don't really see why everbody is getting so upset. I mean, what the heck to you expect?? Total perfection? Let's face it: there isn't a single game that includes features which everybody wants. Furthermore, it's simply a game, and, although it may not fufill your every gaming desire, it will most likely be far more enjoyable than almost all other games out there - canals or not.

Now tell me, why, as gamer, I dont have the right to ask for perfection?

quote:

It also seems that the reviews have all been posative! I mean, there had been some concern over minor bugs addressed in the articles, but it seemed to me that these problems were fixed.

Previews not reviews (if they were reviews, I wouldnt buy the game )! I am cautious! Just cautious!

quote:

I suppose I just don't know what everybody expects. If you expect heaven on earth, then you probably won't find it. But, if you want a game where you can spend some fun-filled hours, it seems to me that, judging from the reviews, you'll probably find it in Call to Power II.

I want LOTS of fun-filled hours, not only some. I had "some" with CtP1. I want LOTS! The ultimate CIV-DRUG!

Ata

**aCa** · November 1, 2000, 06:21

quote:

Originally posted by Atahualpa on 11-01-2000 04:54 AM
Sure its editable, but when they support only 8 civs, that would also mean that the official scenarios will only have 8 civs

I have to admit that is could be fun with more civs, but really not the most important part. We have to concider that the cities needs mutch more space then in CTP1. The map would be very crouded with many more civs. But in the scenarios it would be usefull with more civs ....

quote:

Besides did you know it took CtP1 6 Months to add PBEM?

I know it took 6 months to add PBEM to CTP1. I really hope they can do it quicker now. They have some experience in that field so they should have a chance to do it quicker now .... crossing my fingers

quote:

A question to you: Have you played CtP1?

Yes I have played CTP1. I have played it alot. I have been adicted to civ since Sid Meier came out with his first civilization game (was it 1991?). CTP1 wasn't as addictive as the previus civ games but still a ok game .... not great.

quote:

I have been here when CtP1 was released.
I guess you too (thats what your registration date said). I dont say it is going to suck! I say: "Activision dont screw it up this time!" There is a big difference.
And I bother to read it, cause I want a great game! And somehow I still think the game can turn out great, although I have lost lots of faith. I would thank Activision if they can convince me with the opposite.

I have been here since the CTP1 was released. Havn't been very active since school and work takes mutch of my time. But now I'm in here about 5 times each day Good you say that the game doesn't sux. Becouse the ppl who say that have no thing to back that statement up with. So there I didn't talk about you .... becouse there are other ppl here that are SURE it will sux.

quote:

I just dislike people with such a narrow mind as you have!

I have one thing to say to that: LOL!

quote:

I want LOTS of fun-filled hours, not only some. I had "some" with CtP1. I want LOTS! The ultimate CIV-DRUG!

Atleast we agree about one thing!!!!

aCa@civ

Damd this addiction .....

**MidKnight Lament** · November 1, 2000, 10:10

Good on you for speaking up, aCa.

I'm still hesitant about the way the game's going to turn out, but it's really not worth everyone getting fired up about it until we can take a look at it ourselves.

It'd be a damn shame if the Activision guys stop posting here as often because there's so much friction at the moment.

------------------
- MKL
"And of course Henry The Horse dances the waltz!"
Shameless Plug: http://www.poetic-license.org celebrates it's First Birthday! All welcome.

**Big Dave** · November 1, 2000, 12:49

Why are you degenerating into name calling, aCa? I have not flung mud at anyone. I have pointed out behavior that I was not pleased with by Activision (and other companies). And the emotional "Afraid of getting hurt again?" nonsense shouldn't even be a real question from anyone who's read more than 2 of my posts. If it's hard to tell what the real problem is then you'd better go back and reread my posts again. I think I've been pretty clearr about this but I'll go ahead and spell it out for you again anyway.

I don't want to buy unfinished products. If everyone else buys unfinished products that is all there will be on the market.

The following paragraph is not intended to be inflamitory or a personal attack on anyone in any fashion. Rather it is intended to be a look at some facets of our society today expressed in a second person format.

Now I realize that you're probably a GenX'er (or later) who's been marketed to all your life and you're very vulnerable to all the right-brain hype that the corporations bedazzle you with. But I would encourage you to stop "feeling" your decisions and consider the facts.

The fact is that Activision is taking out numerous features that were in a previous game. New games are supposed to have more features for deeper game play. You have said "They can add it later". Yeah, they can, but will they? "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" as the old saying goes. Over 6 months to add PBEM support, they never officially recognized that their combat system was broken and even turned down a free fix for it (CD's mod). Well, they've recognized it now, as evidenced by the totally rewritten combat system adding armor values, etc.

As for perfection, I'll ask for it every time I please. However if I seriously expect it i'm going to be dissapointed alot of the time. But perfection is not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a product that is over 75% finished. I am, after all, paying over 75% of the asking price for it. And all it would take to finish the product is a little more time. I see nothing wrong with a Q1 2001 release. Ok, you miss the Christmas buying frenzy. Guess, what, people have money after the first of the year. And if you write a good product people will be buying it for some time to come. You might not have to release more than two patches for this one if you finish it before releaseing it. But U.S. companies are notorius for not having any long term vision. They've got to look good for the stockholders but only for one quarter at a time.

I think Markos and Dan also do a wonderful job here, and I'm thankful for an open forum where I can voice a dissenting opinion. I am also glad that Activision has sent many of their people to this forum and that they have implimented some of our suggestions. On a more personal note, I even like all the Activisioners that I've met in here. I'm still not sure what that has to do with this conversation, though.

I'll leave you with this quote from Robert Heinlein. "The sign of a true mark is that you can fleece him again and again." That's not verbatim, but it is faithful to the idea he was trying to convey.

------------------
Big Dave

My karma ran over my dogma.

**aCa** · November 1, 2000, 14:25

quote:

Originally posted by Big Dave on 11-01-2000 11:49 AM
And the emotional "Afraid of getting hurt again?" nonsense shouldn't even be a real question from anyone who's read more than 2 of my posts. If it's hard to tell what the real problem is then you'd better go back and reread my posts again. I think I've been pretty clearr about this but I'll go ahead and spell it out for you again anyway.

Hmmz .... I can't remember naming any names in my post. Why you feel such a eager to defend yourself? I wrote a general post of the complaints that have been posted here lately. I have no problem to accept that some are sceptic, but when ppl say it going to sux for sure without anything backing thair statement up is just stupid.

quote:

And all it would take to finish the product is a little more time. I see nothing wrong with a Q1 2001 release.

I actuall think the game may be very good as it is now. If they delay the release I think the only thing they would add is PBEM and hotseat. Those two things are something I can live without at the beginning. No problems for me to download them later (I agree that they have to give out a patch for it and that they have to give it out quicker then last time).

And I just wanne say that I'm a 20 year old Civilization addict that only play CIV (and one crappy online game called Subspace ). I loose interest in all other games after playing the them a time or two.

aCa@civ

**MarkG** · November 1, 2000, 14:55

quote:

Originally posted by Big Dave on 11-01-2000 11:49 AM
they never officially recognized that their combat system was broken and even turned down a free fix for it (CD's mod).

i think you gave yourself the answer

quote:

Well, they've recognized it now, as evidenced by the totally rewritten combat system adding armor values, etc.

how often to do you see a big company PUBICLY accepting an error and a free solution from a "simple user"?

**Paulypav** · November 1, 2000, 15:46

I too, think that everyone is overreacting to some minor points in the previews, most of which seem to have been addressed. I would have liked to have more than 8 civs , but not at the risk of reducing AI intelligence.

While I never used PBEM, I think it would have been good for Activision to have included it, since they were able to create a patch for CTP. It seems safe to say that it will be less than 6 months for them to patch it this time as long as those of you who want PBEM make sure they know it, and do so in a calm and reasonable manner. So many of the posts sound like whining more than reasonable requests for the inclusion of a feature.

I think we should be thankful that Activision is willing to participate in the forums here and that individuals like Pyaray provide timely responses, I only wish he had been involved earlier in the process.

Thanks also to Mark and Dan for their work keeping the forums together.

------------------
"In war, there is no substitute for victory."
- Douglas MacArthur

**red_jon** · November 1, 2000, 16:04

Why are people feeling SORRY for Activision.

They are getting lots of money from US who are paying for thier games, so they are expected to release a quality product.

ITS THEIR JOBS!

They can't release a bug-filled, unimproved game and expect us to patch it up later, just because they want their cash£$ a few months earlier!(however, I am confident they won't, I'm looking forward to CTP2).

Bugs like those in CTP1 should not have allowed the game to get past quality control.

------------------
...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.

Announcement

Funny ppl and GOOO Activision ;)

Funny ppl and GOOO Activision ;)

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment