Wonders o' the world... the root of all evil?

[Big Dave]

Yeah, I have to agree that swapping out wonders has to go. I mean, how does hauling hundreds of 20 ton blocks for your Great Pyramid help you build Hanging Gardens if you change your mind? A max of 10% of your production should be transferrable to a new wonder (and if it were 0% it wouldn't break my heart any).

As for requriring spies to find out about wonder construction, no, I don't think so. The other civ is building a WONDER, it's huge, a sizable portion of that civs population is working on it, they know what they're building and they're probably proud of it.

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Big Dave

Failure is not an option
It's bundled with the software

[Grumbold]

While worldwide boasting may be true for many of the larger scale structural Wonders, it does not apply so much for secret wonders like military projects or indeed for Ancient times when you're island nation hasn't even encountered a single foreign nation.

Many of CtP's Wonders are the sort of thing that only become renowned as something exceptional with hindsight. Edison's lab was just another lab when it was first built. Should we be in a panic every time a tribe erects a monolith just in case one of them turns into Stonehenge? For me, rumours that the Celts were up to something 'big' would be enough - provided the concept of multiple wonder owners was in force. I agree that the current game situation where owning certain wonders is vital to world domination accurate information is a must.

The concept of the Greeks bulk-importing stone and erecting a Great Pyramid in five years flat because they heard a rumour that the Egyptians were likely to complete theirs in under ten just jars my sensibilities. Almost every nation in the world have built their own trade-improving architectural monuments at one period or another. Some are now known as Wonders but apart from a little additional tourism haven't been renowned for providing their civilisations with huge advantages. It's almost the reverse - a prospering ancient civilisation felt bound to demonstrate their own importance by wasting massive resources on grandiose architecture.

[DrDanger]

I play Rogue Spear/Urban Ops a lot online one thing that appeals to me is the "RANDOM MAP".Option in Multiplayer .so that NO one..not even host knows if it is a sniper..rush or assault map..so you cant pick a sniper rifle or machine gun or assault..w/o taking chance it may be wrong..Having said this..I would like to see an option where you could say if there were 30 wonders..make it where there were only maybe 10-12 available...and maybe one civ was given the luck of the draw..say London Exchange..but MAYBE..MAYBE another Civ didnt have that option..but Maybe they Had Internet..instead..and say you wouldnt know what a particular Civ was building until maybe 5 turns before it was built..makes a more interesting spin..for us out there who like "Challenges"..Thats why I enjoy playing No Wonders sometimes...just for a change of pace

[wheathin]

I dunno big dave, I think you need to have the wonder-swapping ability. Otherwise, civs will be crippled just for guessing wrong (more than they already are when you build the last available wonder).

After all, it makes even less sense that after you've got the bottom half a pyramid built, you HAVE to stop just because someone else beat you to it. Egypt's pyramids didn't prevent the Mayans and others from building their own.

[Big Dave]

That makes sense, Wheathin but I don't want to see anyone switching wonders whenever they feel like it.
Respectfully,

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Big Dave

Failure is not an option
It's bundled with the software

[Daniel Frappier]

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Otherwise, civs will be crippled just for guessing wrong
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It is a 2 sided sword. If it happen to a weak Civ then it gets weaker but if it happen to the #1 Civ then it gives a chance for the other Civs to go back in the game.

For me the predictability of the game (knowing who will win 200 turns before the end) is one major problem and this would be one thing to help solve it.

[Talon438]

Some wonders should be on the terrain in several places like 2 pyramids some where controlled by seperate civs that way people can steal wonders or take over the terrian instead of building them that way it wont affect small civs as much. I repeat this would only work with some wonders.

[chatgr]

Maybe it sould be an option for diplomacy.
Stop buildinding new wonders or else.
Or maybe two civilaizations that have a race
with two wonders each could agree to build only one wonder each.
Or maybe there could be a wonders pact.

[Adm.Naismith]

Well, sorry for jumping in without CTP knowledge (but having played a lot Civ/Civ2 and SMAC).

In my opinion, when two or more cities (same nation) start building the same Wonders, the rules must be that one is also the city where the Wonder will be built, the others simply support (no more by CIV Caravan or SMAC supply units) the building, introducing some % of shields lost for inefficiency and transporting costs.

This will avoid the trick to start same Wonders in two or more cities, just for switching when new Wonder become available by tech research or tech trade.

I'm not sure about the problem of losing the wonder rush: how can I do with an almost finished Pyramid? Considering how often old Wonders become used as deposit of raw materials (stones and metal) for other building, I simply suggest they slowly become consumed adding resources to the next buildings in the same city at half the rate of shields, for the same building turns (you will end losting 50% resources).

Ok, it's really a draft formula, please correct it as you like. The concept is I can reuse something, but not the workhours spent (they are fully lost), and taking the time to recycle some parts.

If you think this only work for stones and the like, please consider how often also ideas and tools can be used in a different project.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant

[Blade Runner]

4. There is no exact price. The wonder price depend on how much money collected together by all civ's. his way every wonder will go to a civ.
5. You never know how much money collected by others, so you need to risk to pay to much or not enough.

Blade

[Blade Runner]

There is always a fight between the fun and the history. I have an idea, which is sound historically stupid, but fun.
1. Every civ has a slider to collect money for wonder.
2. When enough money (resources) collected, the system will provide you randomly a wonder. Sure not that one, waht you would like to get, but usefull.
3. This way u get suprise, you never know when and exactly what you will get from the wonders, and no wonder rush anymore, and the average or weak civ's get a chance too.

Blade

[Adm.Naismith]

Blade Runner (nice nickname, BTW), do you mean I can have Pyramids as surprise into my next Easter Egg?

Well, at least with Santa Klaus I used to write down my wished gifts on a letter!

Back serius, I think we have more than enough surprise with Civ 2 hut discovery, or SMAC pod race.

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Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant