Combat questions

[Maquiladora]

No doubt, but you got it free didnt you so quit complaining

Btw how come you used PNG?

[Maquiladora]

Heres a combat simulator i made in Excel, this about as mathematic as i get so hopefully someone else can fit armour and strength into it too somehow, although i didnt try myself so. Beats using the calculator though.

edit: fixed the stupid city walls bonus, download on page 2.

[HuangShang]

Originally posted by Pedrunn
PowePoint is a left-over. It was suppose to give the military rank but this was not implemented.

its really too bad they left it out, an army that won more time should have an easier win, even w/o full health

[Maquiladora]

Actually theres an error in that guide, it mentions city walls in an example with a Machine Gunner defending a Tank and gives the Machine Gunner +15 for defence from city walls and not +15%(percent). Thought id botched the combat simulation. Funny though, it doesnt mention % on the tech tree poster either, just "+15 defence", but it is actually +15%

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
No doubt, but you got it free didnt you so quit complaining

But it's taking up space on my already chockfull bookshelf

Btw how come you used PNG?

Why would I not use PNG? AFAIK it's got the best size-quality ratio of all popular file formats...

Heres a combat simulator i made in Excel, this about as mathematic as i get so hopefully someone else can fit armour and strength into it too somehow, although i didnt try myself so. Beats using the calculator though.

Interesting, but you forgot about fortifying and veteran status. Also, armor and firepower don't affect the chance of hitting the unit (just the damage done when it's a hit), so in this simulator these values are irrelevant. If you want to get as final result the chance of winning the battle, you do have to take that into account but then there are a few other things as well. Most importantly, after the attacker attacked the defender, the defender gets to attack the attacker, so the defensive stats of the attacker and the offensive stats of the defender need to be factored in too.

Are you sure about those City Walls? I've always been pretty sure they add +15 Defense and not 15% (or at least it said so in the top corner of the screen, I didn't test thoroughly enough to see if this was actually weighed in in the actual combat). I just tested it: I attacked a Plains city without defenses and with one regular, unfortified unit in it and it got 0 defensive bonuses; when I attacked the same city again after having added City Walls in the cheat menu, it got a +12 (not +12%) defensive bonus. It's not clear to me why I got a +12 bonus rather than a +15 (as the text file states), but my colors where also messed up and I saw some other unusual things, so I guess it's time for a reinstall for me Maybe someone else could test as well to see if my result wasn't caused by a messed up system but I'm pretty sure that the City Walls should add an absolute bonus, not a relative one...

HuangShang,
I'm not sure if that's what Pedrunn meant to say with military rank but in any case it's incorrect. The PowerPoints were supposed to be some sort of advanced MP feature: at the start of the game you would get x powerpoints and you would be able to 'buy' units with them. But this was never implemented (obviously).

[Locutus]

BTW, here's some observations Wes made on this issue a while ago: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=17205

[Maquiladora]

Yeah your right, never really thought about that actually, its not like anyone ever attacked my cities with anything worse than cannons so. Anyway fixed it now so its +15 defence.

An idea for the armour and firepower. In excel you could generate a random number cell for every % between 1-100% chance of attacker hitting (do the same for the defender attacking next), so if the attacker has 58% chance of hitting, then the attacker owns numbers from 1-58 and the defender gets 59-100 then get a random number from cell "randomnum 1-100", if that draws say "42" (1-59) the attacker wins, if it draws "85" (59-100) the defender wins.

Whichever number it gets then take away 1 hitpoint from the defender (taking into account armour and firepower of course) if the attacker won or if the defender deflects the hit (slightly against the odds) if the random number is chosen in its own range 59-100.

If thats sounds too random just selecting randomly once from 1-100, you could draw that random number 999 times then it would come out more average, probably.

Does that sound too random? Better ideas?

edit:fixed below

[Maquiladora]

Do Veterans only get a bonus for attack?

And whats the bonus for fortified 50%? (I wanna get it right this time)

[ivanbuto]

Locutus, maybe you got a +12 bonus instead of +15 b/c the defense coefficient for tyrany is 0.85

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by ivanbuto
Locutus, maybe you got a +12 bonus instead of +15 b/c the defense coefficient for tyrany is 0.85

That could be another thing to put in the simulation.

Okay now it does the Defender attacking too, i think its right this time. Ive assumed that only the attacking unit in that round (defender or attacker) gets a veteran bonus. Also that fortified gives +50%.

[ivanbuto]

In the manual and great lib it says that veterans enjoy a "small attack bonus". But in Const.txt it says

VETERAN_COEF 50 #percent improvement in attack and defense of vetern units

Anybody know what the truth is? And why couldn't the people who wrote the ****ty manual write HOW MUCH bonus instead of a small bonus.

Similarly, they say that the fortification process takes "a few turns to complete". Does anybody know how many this is (I couldn't find it anywhere?) Is it 2 as it was in Civ2?

Why couldn't they write how many instead of "a few"?!

[Pedrunn]

The manual sucks. They probably made while CTP2 was just a BETA or before that. Most of the information is just not there or it is wrong (eg. the production from franchise is wrong). The reason is for sure because the game was rushed out. So never trust the manual for nothing except the basic concepts. Other than that the manual = crap. Better just ask us here in apolyton.

[Locutus]

Maq,
I don't have much time right so I can't elaborate too much at the moment but judging from your posts (haven't seen the latest siim in action yet) you're making it much more complicated than it is. You can quite easily calculate the chance of winning a battle using the following (I've only been awake a few minutes and this was a rush-job so it might not be a good idea if someone checked my math):

DC: Defensive capacity (hitpoints, armor)
CoH: Chance of hit
DD: Damage done (firepower)

A: Attacker
D: Defender

NoT: Number of turns to destruction
CtW: Chance to win the battle

DC|D / (CoH|A * DD|A) = NoT|D
DC|A / (CoH|D * DD|D) = NoT|A

NoT|D / (NoT|D + NoT|A) = CtW|A
NoT|A / (NoT|D + NoT|A) = CtW|D

Example:

The attacker has a 40% chance of hitting the defender and can do 2 damage per hit; the defender has a total defensive capacity of 60 points => it takes on average 60/(0.40*2)=75 rounds of combat to destroy the defender.

The defender has a 50% chance of hitting the attacker and can do 1 damage per hit; the attacker has a total defensive capacity of 30 points => it take on average 30/(0.50*1)=60 rounds of combat to destroy the attacker.

So the odds are 75:60 in favour of the defender. In other words, the attacker has a 60/(75+60)=0.44 = 44% chance of defeating the defender.

[HuangShang]

aww, the powerpionts were NG anyway?

but a better system of veterans should be good

[Maquiladora]

Locutus how did you work out the total Defensive capacity?