about that green bar.........

[David In Asia]

hi all, nice to meet you

just finished my third game of civIII, and saw in a thread somewhere that ctp2 had been modded to make the game what it should have been. i hope so, because there are so many things which make ctp better than civ, it was just too easy.

anyhows, i haven't come here to start a debate (oops, too late ), but to ask a question regarding food. i can see that the figure in the green bar is added to the pop., but how does the amount of food made relate to that number. for example, my city london is at +970 (green bar), and bringing in 130 bread. how do these figures relate to one another. my other city has +900/77 bread. same question.

i understand the relationship with the sliders, np there. am i making sense? where do the greenbar numbers come from??

yours hopefully and thanks in advance
d
ps. also, does ctp2 use ZOC?

[Alex]

Hi, David, and welcome to Apolyton! I see that you have followed my advice on the CFC forums and headed this way... You'll be amazed with what people can do to a game 'round here...

As for your questions, I really don't have an answer to the food numbers. I'm in the dark here. Could someone please explain this to us?

Oh, and CTP2 uses ZOC.

Sorry if I was not of much help, but the modders and experts are coming...

[Hermann the Lombard]

I don't have a very good understanding of city growth factors, but if you see "+2500" for example you will add about 2500 population on the coming turn. You can use this to calculate when your city will grow to the next size, at which point the calculation will change as you're trying to grow from a larger base. This is particularly relevant when trying to efficiently exploit the inner ring or to reach a trade resource in the next ring out.

Note that the city radius first grows at seven in the unmodded game, and at nine in Cradle (and MedMod, I think). Nine makes more sense since there are eight tiles in the inner ring.

[DeanToth]

This is a damn good question. I even hand-counted all the Food values in the tiles of a city and the total food collected doesn't match the Bread number, though it gets close once you take into account +10% and +15% for granary/silo, and whether you add the 10 or 15% together (as 25%) or sequentially.

Maybe a SLIC programmer out there has the numbers figured out. I've played with the numbers a bit but have found there to be too many factors for me to take the time to reverse engineer the math involved.

Below are all the factors I can think of that affect the relationship between a city's Bread and it's Growth bar:

City improvements like the granary/silo add to the number of bread.

Certain national Wonders can add to the bread rating not only by having a food bonus, but making your field workers more efficient in certain cases (since you can't manually allocate which tile is worked on as you could in CTP1, this one is hard to confirm).

Also take into account your Government's "growth rate" which I'm betting can ADD or SUBTRACT to the base Bread rate.

Also, don't forget to count the tile hidden under your city (right click on the city, choose MAP INFO)

Crime rate in city subtracts.

Finally, the current size of the city is some kind of multiplier to the amount of Bread that converts to Growth. I.E. a city of size 1 may have a growth of 1500, but with all other things being equal, the growth will fall to like 750 once the city reaches size 2.

[David In Asia]

hi alex, i remember you well (well, not that well ) - thanks for the advice on where to go.

i've got the green bar in itself sussed - that's the number of citizens added to the pop. each turn. nice one, dean, for being so thorough, but, dammit, i want a a fixed formulae showing the relationship between the loaf of bread and the green bar!! (i feel a song coming on....)

anyhows, i've just started a new game, with only a couple of cities built. i'm going to follow the figures and see what happens. i've started a new organization - Anally Retentive Statistic Examinations - to help collate all data. (new members of A.R.S.E. always welcome).

keep you posted. hopefully, someone will shed some light on the riddle - hopefully a programmer so we can all s****** at his trousers being too short.

d

[DeanToth]

*lots of laughs!*

I love the ARSE bit!


PS - i had to edit my post where I said "since you can manually allocate which tile.."

I meant to say "can't manually"

I'm gonna try to pester some SLICers and see if they can come to this thread.

Later

[child of Thor]

Hi,
try this link here . It's also got a link within it to more info on this subject.Hope it helps(cause i havent got a clue!)

[DeanToth]

yes, I've been reading thru the "science vs commerce" and "boosting science" threads since they have some detailed explanations for tile harvesting rules.

I haven't finished reading them yet,.... but so far haven't see any mention as to the actual calculation that gets from the "bread" number to the "population growth graph" number. Mostly it's discussion on how the Bread number itself is derived (and the gear, the coin, the flask).

Will keep reading thru them though. Hopefully A.R.S.E. will have it's answer shortly

[David In Asia]

that's a really interesting thread - many thanks to locutus (and i wasn't s******ing at your trousers ). for those who don't know, not the first link, but this one:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17362

very enlightning. just to get this straight, have a look at my picture - is that right? cheers.

although, as dean said, still no explanation for greenbar>bread relationship. we'll get there.

d

[DeanToth]

yeah, the tiles-to-population relationship has been fairly clear for me... playing Call To Power 1 helps with this, cuz you get the ability to manually place the members of your population on any square in your influence..

It is apparent that CTP2 did away with this in favor of only using CTP1's "automatic/best worker placement" method, mitigated by the "efficiency" rating (which, for reasons worthy of another thread unto itself, is a good way to go IMHO)

But as David said that i said when I paraphrased him, how does BREAD beget the GROWTH number??????????

A pox on you David for making me think of this, as it has never been an issue for me up to now, but I find myself scouring the forums now looking for clues and pestering other users.

I suspect that lurking under the hood are similar issues regarding how the Flask/coin/gear amount affects the actual science/income/production amounts. But.... one thing at a time.
============================

PS -
Child of Thor: I am a big fan of Conan the Barbarian, which along with Dragonslayer are the two best "sword/sorcery" movies ever made. (conan the destroyer movie was much disappointing).. So I really like your signature text. And thanks for offering your help with the thread link you supplied.

David: I used to live in Japan myself. Are you in Asia for real?

[DeanToth]

Oh, and yes... I second your Locutus kudos (Lokudos?) Not just for that thread, but for basically being a good borg and assimilating many many questions and helping the CTP collective immensely.

[David In Asia]

lol, dean

But as David said that i said, how does BREAD beget the GROWTH number??????????
A pox on you David for making me think of this, as it has never been an issue for me up to now, but I find myself scouring the forums now looking for clues and pestering other users.

yep, live in thailand. and while we're on the subject, is there any way to change the ending date victory condition??

[Maquiladora]

Just a thought but as you right click on the tile it gives you the amount of food resource on that tile, ie grassland 20 (unfarmed etc) So maybe it adds up all the ones being collected FROM and shows it as the little bread icon in the city screen.
Whether ''the bread number'' is the WHOLE of the 9 squares surrounding and centre square (city size 1-6) or just the one/s that are being collected from im not quite sure.. YET. But it would be easy to find out, just right click on all the squares and take a look at your bread number, it should correspond. Same goes for production.

I dunno, anyway just a thought.

[DeanToth]

you mean changing the cutoff date from 2300ad to something else?

yes indeed, I had this very question and there is a way to change the SLIC code to your liking.

I will have to look over the text of my other forum participations and find it but rest assured it exists. I ran into it just the other day.....

back soon

[DeanToth]

Maquiladora :

when you say to "right click" are you talking about getting the Tile values for each square?

Cuz if you are, then there is a much easier method...

Just float your pointer over the tile, and the far lower right corner of the screen has a little status bar that says something like:

"Spanish grassland: F:15 P:5 C:5"

and even will try to tell tell you what units are on it, space allowing.