Where'd Joe Go?

[Mr Ogre]

As I'm sure is obvious by now, I'm no longer working on anything CTP related, and have left Activision. There are, in fact, no programmers left at Activision, we were the last in-house team, and there was not a great deal of interest at the company in doing further in-house games, so there we are. I should have stopped by to say goodbye, or until we meet again, a long time ago, but it's hard to know what to say when you spend three years of your life on something (I was there from almost the very beginning on CTP1 right up to the end on CTP2) and then have to stop. It was a good three years, but even if Activision had wanted to keep me on, I would have been crazy not to take the opportunity I did (I'm at Blizzard, I think some of you figured that out a while ago. I mentioned it on my personal site.)

I'm sorry CTP2 isn't everything everyone wanted, but I'm reminded of one of my former boss's (Keith Z of Atomic Games) sayings, "I don't know the secret of success, but the secret of failure is trying to please everyone." I'm proud of what we did with CTP2. It's not a perfect game, but it's pretty damn fun.

Thank you all for being here and for playing the game. Reading these forums made it all worthwhile. We make games for you, after all.

Lastly, I'll be lined up to play Civ3 just like the rest of you. I took the job on CTP partly because I was a huge Civ(1 & 2) fan. Sid is the man, and I'm sure #3 will be another great game.

Joe

[Peter Triggs]

Dear Joe,

I hardly have to thank you for all the work you put in on CTP/CTP2 - after all you did get paid for it - but I will anyway. As I recall you took over as head programmer last summer. I don't know if this was before or as a result of the decision to drop the fuzzy logic framework, but that was a damn good decision. As a result CTP2 is much more comprehensible than CTP and consequently much easier to modify.

That's what I really like about this game. You're right, as a game it's not perfect. But where it stands head and shoulders above any other game I've seen, resides in the fact that it gives you far more access to it's inner workings. Whoever had the idea of exposing the AI, in particular, to public scrutiny deserves some kind of award. I remember that a couple of years ago when I finally broke down and decided to get a new computer, my younger son said to me: "Dad, you know when you get this new computer you' re gonna spend a lot of time playing games on it." And I thought, "Me, never." Little did I know how games had evolved! When I first saw a game in action (Caesar III, I think) that was it, I was hooked. I remember thinking "That's really neat, I wonder how they do that?" But it wasn't until CTP came along that it really became possible to examine how a game does work; and not until CTP2 came along, with it's vastly improved and simplified basic framework, that it became possible to begin to understand it. For that, you and Richard and Winnie and Pyaray and the rest of the team whose names I don't know, have my sincere and heartfelt thanks.

BTW, you might have noticed that Richard drops by periodically and gives (very helpful and appreciated) advice on modifying the AI. There seems to be an increasing interest in SLIC (there was even one request asking where the big SLIC sites are) and the guys who are working with it are getting more and more into it (one of them has expressed an interest in pursuing a career as a games programmer). We sure could use someone who knows about SLIC to similarly drop by and pass on some help and information.

Best wishes,

Peter

[Grandpa Troll]

Mr Ogre

I am a Regional Manager with a large and prominent Ready Mix Concrete Producer in the Southeastern portion of North Carolina USA. I am in charge of Sales, Operations & Quality Assurance for parts of 6 counties. I have 31 people whom report to me at two different facliities. I do a lot of high tech concrete work and am suppossed to gaurantee a product when such things as F.M. (Fineness Modulous) of the sand is wrong, the Carbon Content or L.O.I.(Loss on Ignition)of the Fly Ash, which helps produce an ultimately stronger or durable product, assists in A.S.R.(Alkali-Silica Reaction), that the stone meets what the Quarry or Pit say it does in Sieve size, the various admixtures perform as promoted,....~pause---deep breath~..that the end user..the contractor/finisher doesnt abuse the product by adding an excessive amount of water and then properly finishes wih proper procedures as prescribed by the A.C.I.(American Concrete Institute). I still after the above mentioned areas, which of course are not all encompassing as to the extent of things which are out of my control,I am held responsible for producing a quality product which "Meets or exceeds" the customers demands.

I only have to say that while I was indeed dissapointed with a lot of the various aspects of the game of CTP:2..and some of CTP:1..I have never enjoyed a game more thoroughly! I have learned some great ways to modify and tweak game files...(Not to call myself a programmer by a long shot mind you)

My hat comes off to you and the many folks who worked so hard to do such a job that you could and should be proud of!

I wish you great success at Blizzard, although I claim no open recognition of that name, sorry!

Keep your head held high! By works men shall be known, although a lot of work seems to have been left incompleted, I did notice that CTP:1 & 2 were put out by ACTIVISION, not MrOgre or winnie or Richard..(LOL..in other words..the ownership)..so I do have that much understanding that decisions are made which of course are MOOLA DRIVEN!

No, I wont or should I say shouldnt ever consider buying another Activision game based on not so much the substandard product, but rather the callous and indifferent attitude displayed toward the consumer by the folks at Activision, THAT appalled me, as well as so many other!

Thanks again for your efforts and I am fixing to get back to my 280 X 540 Gigantic 25 city Maximum challenge!(1 of my great modding success..

Be good and best of luck to your future endeavours!

Yours in Civin

Troll

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Hebrews 11:1

Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for and things unseen

[Skeeve]

Well this thread kind of puts it all into perspective.
Good bye Joe. Good luck at Blizzard. Hope you guys make another Warcraft.

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My reach exceeds my grasp!

[Steve5304]

Warcraft rulez !



Grunts and Ogres rock baby!!

[This message has been edited by Steve5304 (edited March 24, 2001).]

[Steve5304]

Farewell joe . CTP was a masterpiece and CTP2 wa ok bye most standerds. Maybe Activision can come together in the future and get its head of out of the sand. Maybe CTP3 should come out at a time when AI engines are stronger. Maybe Activision can make sure CTP3 multiplayer actually worked. It just seemed like Nobody at Activision played these features.. And CTP2 multiplayer is simply "broken". I do find it kinda stupid you guys didnt add PBEM. I Would remind activision that the future of strategy games is the internet. If it doesnt have a workable multiplayer interface, people dont buy it. Most people upon being Rudely kicked bye CTP2 multiplayer immediately reuturned the game (I for one).People want mplayer it is the future! I woudnt care about the AI if MP actually worked. And because of Activisions seroius consumer blunder, Company profits are in the red lately. I only hope that this shook activision up enough. Maybe they wont "take there money" and run next time. To show how big of a bust this game is, I would refer you to Software stores.I still think 19.99 is too expensive tho.

so long!

btw CTP was great, I thought CTP2 would be a modified CTP. But activision added things that the AI coudnt even use, like Cargo planes. And those things that were taken away, like the legion. Once, Again I tell you Mplayer is hte future! games that allow multi-player generally, thrive.
[This message has been edited by Steve5304 (edited March 24, 2001).]

[Dale]

Joe,

Thanks for all your work on CTP1 & 2. I've enjoyed both games. The one thing that sets these two games above a lot of other games is the modifying ability. I've had a lot of fun writing mods for CTP2. Also, it's allowed me to see how games work (sort of). I hope you folks on the CTP team try some of our mods and get as much enjoyment out of them as we do writing them.

Thanks
Dale

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Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

[phoenixcager]

Thanks for keeping us informed, Mr Ogre.

Appreciate your stopping by the forums. If you have anymore inside info concerning the game that you can share, please let us know (like that hidden hotseat feature)

MarkG, time to remove that 'activision' tag from his name...



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phoenixcager of the Civgaming Network.
Visit the CGN forums.

[David Murray]

Bye-bye...and no, I don't agree that CTP2 was fun...from start, when I found the new interface terrible, to the end, when I realized it wasn't much of a challenge, and even after all the mods, it's still lacking severely from lack of playtesting and effort on the part of the original team. Sorry, but no amount of sentimentality can possibly, nor feasibly, mask this fact.

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Brutality is needed in capitalist society
Television abandoned my very entity
Nature failed me but then it made me
We all pray for pluralist babies

[joseph1944]

Thank you for your post. Have fun with your new job. And by-the-way I really do like CTP and CTP 2. It is a fun game.
Joseph

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[David Murray]

Sorry to be the terrible old grump in this thread...maybe we can let him off because he said he likes Civ2.


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Kidnapped -- to the Promised Land...
The bay of pigs
Or baby Elian
Operation -- Peter Pan
America
The Devil's playground...

--The Manics

[3rdTrial]

Bye, Joe. It is nice to see that although Activision Corporation has no repect for its clients that this sentiment is not shared by the professionals involved in the project. Maybe, there is hope in the future.

BTW, I did not buy CTP2, I was wise enough to wait the hype wave. I do enjoy CTP though, specially after Wesley and others fixed it. 8^)