CtP2 Counter-Proposal Bug!!! IMPORTANT

[Atahualpa]

Today I sent following proposal to my allies the indonesians:

Offer Superconductor
Request Nuclear Power

He Rejected.

Then right afterwards I sent this proposal:

Request Nuclear Power
Offer Superconductor

He Accepted.

I mean huh? When I reverse the offer and the request he accepts?
Tone and all was the same with both offers.

Ata

[Alpha Wolf]

when using diplomacy, always offer the same proposal both ways. Order of the proposal seems too important. Same way you can ask to swap maps and it'll counter to switch maps. I guess its like real diplomacy: not what you ask, but how

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History is written by the victor.

[Atahualpa]

Thats stupid IMO

[Alpha Wolf]

I kinda equate it to the "declare war" or "destroy city" choices. I HATE when the AI puts a new city anywhere near me so I always demand they give it too me. If they refuse, I tend to threaten to destroy it first and if that fails, then threaten war. By default, destroying a city should be considered the same as declaring war.

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History is written by the victor.

[orange]

I noticed this as well. I think the AI "likes" it better when you request and then offer rather than offer and then request. In my first game, I am completely allied with the Americans, and when I use the request than offer strategy I always get what I want...and I mean ALWAYS. The other way, i have yet to succeed. The funny thing is, sometimes if I send another proposal where I just request, they give it to me for free

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[Cyrius]

Wow, if we didn't already know it, diplomacy in CTP2 has issues.

Here's my gripes: I cannot get a civ to agree to a treaty if they don't already want it. I.E. no amount of gold, or tech, or even cities can get that civ to sign a trade treaty if they don't want it. Course, maybe I'm just asking in the wrong way... maybe I should request the treaty first and then offer stuff? Or offer stuff and request treaty? WEll, I think I tried both methods, to no avail. I offered stuff like 50,000 gold, gunpowder, and a size 10 city, but they just wouldn't sign a trade treaty. I was allied with them. Apparently, they only sign trade treaties if they have routes going to your empire (I.E., they will directly benifit from the treaty) course, this is silly considering the huge gifts I was prepared to give for it.

[Phalanx]

You can bully empires into treaties (even peace treatiess!). My favorite trick is:

1) I propose a peace treaty...
2) They reject it
3) I threaten to declare war if they wont sign the peace treaty
4) They accept it

It would make me wonder how sincere I was about peace!!! It works with other treaties too - you just have to have a *really* big, scary army!

[Jonny]

I think I have found another diplomacy bug. Sometimes I will create this proposal to the AI:

Request their maps
Offer my maps

The AI creates a counter proposal:

Offer their maps
Request my maps

Isn't that what I said? This should be fixed in a patch.

Jonny

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by Phalanx on 12-31-2000 08:37 PM 1) I propose a peace treaty... 2) They reject it 3) I threaten to declare war if they wont sign the peace treaty 4) They accept it

i dont see the problem
it's the "if you're not with us, you're against us. make a choice" logic

[Alcibiades]

Actually, there's a much simpler way to get everything you want in the way of treaties from an AI player. Wait for them to land somewhere on your soil, then request they withdraw. They'll agree to do so, if you have at least a ceasefire with them. However, they won't do it. (It seems they never will honor this agreement -- I'm about to start a war with an ally expressly to get rid of his units on my soil).

The benefit to you of this invariable perfidy, is that they'll go on agreeing to withdraw, without ever honoring the agreement, even you package the request with a treaty. You make a blood enemy you just reached a ceasefire with agree to peace, trade, research, military, and alliance treaties in just 5 turns (maybe less, if you're impatient), using this trick. The catch is, you'll still have to establish containment positions around their bridgehead, if you don't want them wandering freely through your territory.



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- Al